A Bad Experience at Mallard Barn
- Thread starter alvaro
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jamross65
Well-Known Member
I have to be honest alvaro, this whole incident is just going to eat away at you and cause you no end of upset, as it is clear that neither the estate or the stalker are prepared to offer any recompense.
It may be one of lives hard lessons to be learned from.
If you are still seeking out suitable venues to stalk, there are plenty of other estates and stalkers out there offering good days. I do not know that many down your way but if I was to recommend one, I would suggest contacting Glynn at Holkham. It may be twice the distance of this estate that you were on but I know Glynn and you will have a good day out, more than likely see plenty and I guarantee you and your boys will come away having learned something about deer. The extra distance will be worth it.
It may be one of lives hard lessons to be learned from.
If you are still seeking out suitable venues to stalk, there are plenty of other estates and stalkers out there offering good days. I do not know that many down your way but if I was to recommend one, I would suggest contacting Glynn at Holkham. It may be twice the distance of this estate that you were on but I know Glynn and you will have a good day out, more than likely see plenty and I guarantee you and your boys will come away having learned something about deer. The extra distance will be worth it.
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
2nd that! Glyn is a decent chap, and you won't beat Holkham for location and surroundings.....
baguio
Well-Known Member
Do you know that their keeper is bordering on illiterate too then? I wonder what some people done at school when I read posts like Lord Pierre's. And please 'deer' Lord, don't come back at me with an excuse about all the mistakes. If you have trouble with the written English then just write your post in 'Microsoft Word or whatever programme you have and then 'Cut and Paste' it into your post. You will then have to edit the post to put in some spaces that might go missing but at least it will end up readable and you will end up appearing a little brighter than you actually are with the result that people might take you seriously!
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shootingduckdog
Well-Known Member
just to clarify in my mind, it was claimed the carcases went to a BUTCHER, now technically thats not a game dealer, or is it???
EMcC
Well-Known Member
Please make allowances for his use of English, it is his second language and not many of us have more than one and some cannot do very well in that.
The facts seem to be that he shot a number of Deer and asked for the heads but was not given them and when he asked for them, he was given excuses.
As someone has already said on this post, most times when a male Deer is shot the head is normally kept as a momento of the outing.
That seems to have gone wrong in this instance and the Estate does not seem to want to make up for it's mistake.
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baguio
Well-Known Member
Makes no difference. The butcher would not be able to do the node checks or offal checks so would quite rightly expect the stalker to have done them already! It appears that this was not the case here though!
Overlay
Well-Known Member
This whole episode seems to have spiralled into a black hole, two things that are clear is that the client has not received a reasonably finished days stalking and or the correct amount of heads for whatever reason.
The disposal of the carcases albiet the right or the wrong way of inspection and storage or to who ever has been the last receiver of the beast(s) is irelevant, that should be investigated by the EHO if it has a ring of poor carcase management and as such is open to a proper investigation, through the correct channels and should be based on fact only not hearsay.
The sad part of the whole thing is that the estate apparently has not tried to clarify responsibly and sort it out, it is between the OP and the stalking estate, As stated it has a pretty large operation for field sports and based on this only, the decent thing would to have responded and put it to bed even on a 50/50 basis of offering a stalk to recompense the heads lost, not medal class or anything , just a chance to see if they could come up with another Buck or two to save the day and put closure on a day that the OP has obviously paid for and unfortunately it didn't finish off as intended for himself and family.
Common courtesy and business sense should have cut in by now ?
If the estate do not wish to settle the matter in a decent manner, then let the mud stick, which is not the best answer for anyone involved, what goes around comes around, no winner.
The sad part is, having situations like this will do the stalking fraternity absolutely no favours and puts stalking in a bad light for field sports, particularly for new people hopefully starting out to obtain training seeing this recent fracas and thinking do I really want to subject myself to this ?. NO
Stalking deer is the most fulfilling sport around, you only get out what you put in, no guarantees of success, you get to see all areas of the countryside ordinarily you wouldn't see, you get soaked, frozen, worn out, all the training and walking behind someone for which seems forever, is all worth it, damn right it is, someone has taken their time to pass on the knowledge they know to you, to be able to succeed. that doesn't come by accident, it should be enjoyed, this certainly isn't the case on this one. let bygones be bygones, every day is a learning day.
Lets hope we have less of these episodes and a stack more good ones
Phil
The disposal of the carcases albiet the right or the wrong way of inspection and storage or to who ever has been the last receiver of the beast(s) is irelevant, that should be investigated by the EHO if it has a ring of poor carcase management and as such is open to a proper investigation, through the correct channels and should be based on fact only not hearsay.
The sad part of the whole thing is that the estate apparently has not tried to clarify responsibly and sort it out, it is between the OP and the stalking estate, As stated it has a pretty large operation for field sports and based on this only, the decent thing would to have responded and put it to bed even on a 50/50 basis of offering a stalk to recompense the heads lost, not medal class or anything , just a chance to see if they could come up with another Buck or two to save the day and put closure on a day that the OP has obviously paid for and unfortunately it didn't finish off as intended for himself and family.
Common courtesy and business sense should have cut in by now ?
If the estate do not wish to settle the matter in a decent manner, then let the mud stick, which is not the best answer for anyone involved, what goes around comes around, no winner.
The sad part is, having situations like this will do the stalking fraternity absolutely no favours and puts stalking in a bad light for field sports, particularly for new people hopefully starting out to obtain training seeing this recent fracas and thinking do I really want to subject myself to this ?. NO
Stalking deer is the most fulfilling sport around, you only get out what you put in, no guarantees of success, you get to see all areas of the countryside ordinarily you wouldn't see, you get soaked, frozen, worn out, all the training and walking behind someone for which seems forever, is all worth it, damn right it is, someone has taken their time to pass on the knowledge they know to you, to be able to succeed. that doesn't come by accident, it should be enjoyed, this certainly isn't the case on this one. let bygones be bygones, every day is a learning day.
Lets hope we have less of these episodes and a stack more good ones
Phil
Moonraker68
Well-Known Member
It's a shame that heads lost were from the bucks shot by your sons, as they would have meant a lot more to them than an experienced stalker. Mistakes happen, but it sounds like any form of apology/recompense was never offered. I assume you had parted with a fairly significant sum of money as well. It would be worthwhile booking your next trip with one of the trade members of this site.
Sorry, Malcolm, you are taking sides. The original poster committed the same offence and stayed?Lord or not makes no difference, No intro and no attempt to introduce yourself, soculled out with the delete button.
If you wish to rejoin then please follow the site rules, which are there for everyone, including you.
Mind you I don't like trial by forum. Now, LP is in for stick even if he is right.
Jim
widows son
Well-Known Member
All this for a couple of heads your bringing a estate into disrepute, for a mistake get a life .
Your being really sad over nothing of course in your own life you've done everything correct ,and I don't think so take the stalking for what it was, good days enjoyment which you have now wasted for yourself and your sons ,by posting up this crap, the enjoyment of stalking for most of us is just getting out and participating ,not in trophys .
What you need to do is apologise to your sons for this, and pick up on the memory of having quality time with them on a good quality outing .
Which by your write up showed plenty of good quality deer stalking catering for everyone's needs ,on the day.
Your being really sad over nothing of course in your own life you've done everything correct ,and I don't think so take the stalking for what it was, good days enjoyment which you have now wasted for yourself and your sons ,by posting up this crap, the enjoyment of stalking for most of us is just getting out and participating ,not in trophys .
What you need to do is apologise to your sons for this, and pick up on the memory of having quality time with them on a good quality outing .
Which by your write up showed plenty of good quality deer stalking catering for everyone's needs ,on the day.
EMcC
Well-Known Member
WS,
I'm glad not everybody has your attitude or I'm sure there would be a lot of disgruntled stalkers about and a lot of 'side loaded' tropies sold on the side.
That could create a whole new market in Heads/Trophies being sold that were shot by others, I'm not saying that is what happened in this case.
This was obviously a mistake by the Estate which could have easily been put right but wasn't and I think if I were in his shoes I wouldn't just let it go and get on with my life either.
It wouldn't bother me unduly now at my stage in the game but in my earlier years I would have gone ballistic, maybe.
I'm glad not everybody has your attitude or I'm sure there would be a lot of disgruntled stalkers about and a lot of 'side loaded' tropies sold on the side.
That could create a whole new market in Heads/Trophies being sold that were shot by others, I'm not saying that is what happened in this case.
This was obviously a mistake by the Estate which could have easily been put right but wasn't and I think if I were in his shoes I wouldn't just let it go and get on with my life either.
It wouldn't bother me unduly now at my stage in the game but in my earlier years I would have gone ballistic, maybe.
Grandhubert
Well-Known Member
baguio
Well-Known Member
IMHO you are totally wrong on this ws. So you don't stalk for the trophys, well that's fine, but who are you to say that this guy is wrong because he did? Plenty of money is put into this sport by people like the OP and good for them. People's jobs depend on trophys.
And for goodness sake. The word 'Your' is not the same word as 'you're' or 'you are' and that is just for starters! Commas instead of full stops or neither when there should be etc. Far too many of your posts carry a nasty undertone ws and there's no need for it!
IF you come on here and write scathing attacks on people then please don't think it doesn't open yourself up for incoming either!
Sorry but that's my opinion.
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jamross65
Well-Known Member
WS
This guy paid for something he did not receive. Simple as that. He bought a day at bucks which by any reasonable expectation would include the heads. He never got them so the day has been charged without the provider giving what was paid for! If you went into your butcher and asked for 2lbs of mince and was handed a pound and a half what would you do? Write it off because challenging it would be 'sad'? There is no difference in my opinion although this scenario is a bit more complex than that example.
I have seen in the past days being offered on a cull only basis, in particular safaris where the outfitters state very clearly up front that the skins or trophy will be retained. That is also acceptable with regards to game shooting when the bag is retained and you will be offered a brace of birds as you are only paying for the sport. That may be where the comment about 'having the pleasure of shooting at my estate' came from.
This guy paid for something he did not receive. Simple as that. He bought a day at bucks which by any reasonable expectation would include the heads. He never got them so the day has been charged without the provider giving what was paid for! If you went into your butcher and asked for 2lbs of mince and was handed a pound and a half what would you do? Write it off because challenging it would be 'sad'? There is no difference in my opinion although this scenario is a bit more complex than that example.
I have seen in the past days being offered on a cull only basis, in particular safaris where the outfitters state very clearly up front that the skins or trophy will be retained. That is also acceptable with regards to game shooting when the bag is retained and you will be offered a brace of birds as you are only paying for the sport. That may be where the comment about 'having the pleasure of shooting at my estate' came from.
My dog ate a very important guests roe trophy once, he was very good about it (in fact he was more concerned about the Peroxide harming the dog) but the fact of the matter is, it was too late, there was nothing that I could do to replace it so I had to be open and honest. I have also got trophies mixed up in the past and, again, the only thing to do is be honest and contact the guests and ask them to help you identify which is which.
It is a shame that this issue has involved bucks taken by young lads as they almost certainly mean more to them than they might do to an old sweat.
We all make mistakes and its a shame that the two parties involved have not been able to sort this one out before it became an unprofessional internet argument in which no-one comes out looking good. This is one of the reasons that many companies/estates ban employees from using networking sites for anything to do with their business.
JC
It is a shame that this issue has involved bucks taken by young lads as they almost certainly mean more to them than they might do to an old sweat.
We all make mistakes and its a shame that the two parties involved have not been able to sort this one out before it became an unprofessional internet argument in which no-one comes out looking good. This is one of the reasons that many companies/estates ban employees from using networking sites for anything to do with their business.
JC
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
Did you still charge the trophy fee though?
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Thats fair and valid comment, but at what point does the 'little man' just role over and accept what he thinks is unfair treatment?
The fact that the internet is accessed by all and that included potential future customers, those that otherwise may have replied with 'tough s**t...' now have to consider the harm that may do. Thankfully in the stalking/shooting/fishing world I have been fortunate at never having had a bad experience like this myself, but in fairness to the OP, in his words he tried to resolve the matter before being left with no choice in his opinion.
There are many that cannot handle confrontation and would have accepted this outcome.
The estate could easily have said, 'come back and have another go...' and the post that would have appeared on here would have been very different and done them no end of good.
They have not even come on to argue their point of view, instead an obvious employee has responded with a post that clearly shows the general attitude of the estate which IMO actually strengthens the validity of the OP...
On this occaision there was no fee payable and he was already welcome to come back and stalk whenever he wanted but if he had been a paying customer then I would have had no hestitation in waiving the fee and taking the loss myself.
Many people think that comercial stalking is all about hunting, I would say that it is about 50:50 hunting:entertainment/hospitality and an operation is only going to be very good if it make the grade in both areas, not everyone can do this.
JC
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