Modern takedown rifles

[Pine Marten]

OK, so on one with a stutzen stock, the takedown feature is pretty useless anyway as the length of the longest component would be the same as that of the complete rifle, correct?

They're beautiful rifles, but what with the cartridge being barely legal for deer, probably underpowered for boar, and an ex-military cartridge and therefore illegal in France, it's just not a practical choice for me. Although they do turn up in other chamberings like the .270 win (version from the 50s I believe), but they may well have more knackered barrels.

 

[Kalahari]

I don't know if you can assume the stutzen stock is useless. In the ones I have seen (admittedly only a couple) the stock separated where the barrel separated, on a good rifle, and I suppose H & H come into that category, the join is so fine it is almost invisible.

David.

 

[Brithunter]

OK, so on one with a stutzen stock, the takedown feature is pretty useless anyway as the length of the longest component would be the same as that of the complete rifle, correct?

They're beautiful rifles, but what with the cartridge being barely legal for deer, probably underpowered for boar, and an ex-military cartridge and therefore illegal in France, it's just not a practical choice for me. Although they do turn up in other chamberings like the .270 win (version from the 50s I believe), but they may well have more knackered barrels.

T'is only in Scotland and with 160 grain ammunition where it's a problem. I do not know where it lies legal wise in France. True the Greeks used it in the System Model 30 rifles. Holland and Romania used the rimmed version with Holland causing some confusion by adopting the rifle and cartridge combination in 1895 and then calling the Hembrug made rifles Mannlicher M95 when of course that designation was already in use with the 8x50 and 8x56 Mannlicher M95 straight pull rifles fro the Austro Hungarian Empire.

IF you fancy a Schoenauer then I suggest you look for a model GK. these are later and came in more "Modern" chamberings such as 7x64, 8x57, 270 Win, 30-06 and even some magnum chamberings. The Schoenauer with the slightly swept back bolt handle is the Model 1952 and was aimed at the US market. The Model GK was the top of the line I understand. A friend has just had his rebarrelled by Lother Walther I believe to 7.08 fro 7x64 as the barrel was worn to the point of no longer grouping well enough.

 

[Pine Marten]

A friend has just had his rebarrelled by Lother Walther I believe to 7.08 fro 7x64 as the barrel was worn to the point of no longer grouping well enough.

Could that be the one that been on Guntrader for months now priced at ~£6000? It's an amazing piece of kit, but ever so slightly to pricey for me. By a few grand. Thanks for the tip on the GK though. Did they exist in takedown versions? (I know the answer to this: "Yes, but they're really expensive"). Out of interest, what sort of price bracket does rebarreling a rifle fall into? (I know this one too: "Anything from quite a lot to loads").

 

[Brithunter]

Could that be the one that been on Guntrader for months now priced at ~£6000? It's an amazing piece of kit, but ever so slightly to pricey for me. By a few grand. Thanks for the tip on the GK though. Did they exist in takedown versions? (I know the answer to this: "Yes, but they're really expensive"). Out of interest, what sort of price bracket does rebarreling a rifle fall into? (I know this one too: "Anything from quite a lot to loads").

Sorry I don't know what they cost as I don't know what became of his GK after his untimely death due to cancer. It did not seem appropriate to ask so I assume his grandson had them or dealt with them as he too hunted and shot. Due to his illness which flared up all of a sudden, he had had cancer years back but it was dealt with or so they said, this time it was rapid.

What I can say that Lewis Potter was reasonable in price when he fitted the barrel to mine although that was some years back now. It's been a long term project. Without searching out the receipt I think with proofing, blacking and his work it cost about £250. The barrel cost me £117 including VAT.

Neither of his Mannlicher Shoenauers were take down though. Not the GK nor the Mdl 1903 he had re-barrelled back in the late 60's to .243 Winchester in Liege.

Ahhh I realise it's not a take down but there is quite a nice on in 6.5x54MS complete with Apel mounts on guntrader for £875.

 

[Pine Marten]

OK, so it's not actually a prohibitively expensive thing to buy a rifle in a obsolete calibre or with a knackered barrel and have it replaced. That's good to know. Widens the options a bit for the future. Although I daresay it's a slippery slope.

 

[Brithunter]

Actually if one looks into the various old ways of making rifles take downs it should not really be that expensive to convert one to take down on the systems that H&H, Gibbs of Bristol for example used. Using a full thread and a latch to locate in the tightened and indexed position would not really be hard to do.

Now that I have said that I am starting to think things though on how to and that's a really bad idea. That's how the whole AI project got started you know............................. .

 

[Pine Marten]

Actually if one looks into the various old ways of making rifles take downs it should not really be that expensive to convert one to take down on the systems that H&H, Gibbs of Bristol for example used. Using a full thread and a latch to locate in the tightened and indexed position would not really be hard to do.

I saw a Gibbs takedown on a MS action in the Holt's auction preview last week. It appeared to just have one screw that you needed to remove to remove the fore-end.

Any rifle-makers on here care to comment about the feasability of converting an existing normal rifle to a takedown one as Brithunter suggests?

 

[Bavarianbrit]

how to do it properly.

I know of a master gunsmith in Freiburg Germany who can do it.
He takes 1 good & 1 knackered for example M98 mauser, the calibres can be different. Read on!!! as long as the bolt face is compatible.
1. Then he lathe cuts the good rifles barrel off at the front of the receiver, throws it in the bin & then fine bores the remaining stub barrel which is already tightly screwed into the receiver threads, all the way down the threaded stub back to the bolt face = a threaded tube is now axially centered in the receiver unit. 2. The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] rifle has the barrel taken off – it is lathe mounted between centres and the theaded part is turned down to be a perfect sliding fit into the other unit. That is where the skill is & he trained at the Suhl Germany trade school “I have seen his Meisterstück which he had to make for his final examination”. 3. A threaded lever with a 45 degree point at the thread top is fitted underneath unit 1 at the front of the trigger guard like on some Mausers I have seen. This goes through unit 1 & just into the unit 2 barrel by say 3mm = barrel is now fitted in snug & at it”s correct vertical location. 4. The 2x stocks are cut & shut to make 1x stock with half of it fitted to the main weapon & the other bit is fitted to the barrel with metal washers at back and front to tidy it up.
Off to the proof house for testing and it has not failed on him so far.
It don”t half look elegant when it is finished.
Martin​

 

[Pine Marten]

I don't suppose that you have a picture? As regards point 1, presumably it's the receiver that goes in the bin and not the good barrel? However this sounds like splicing together two rifles rather than adapting just one.

 

[SikaJames]

Pine Marten,
There a lots of 'takedown' rifles, at least enough for easy transport. The key question is 'which can be reassembled and hold zero?'

Blaser R8 - I know my one does reassemble to its zero, as I've tested it.
Mauser M03 - I'm told these re-zero, but the scope is receiver mounted, not barrel mounted.
Sauer 202 (but has a hateful safety-catch IMHO)
Blaser K95
My old Sako75 could be removed from its stock easily, but I'd want to check zero on re-assembly
Pfeiffer SR2 - so short there's no need to disassemble it http://www.pfeifer-waffen.at/en/home.html
Baikal single barrel - I shot on of these in 308, but hated it. Horrid gun!
Double rifles from Merkel, Capuis Arms, etc

For what you want the Blaser K95 would be a pretty good bet. Buy it now, before you blow all you money on a pram!

James

 

[Brithunter]

This idea is not new and the problems of returning to zero it not either. On a remove barrel take down the precision and close tolerance of the fit of barrel to receiver is what will determine this.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Whats the best price anyone has seen on the Merkel RX Helix ?
And does anyone have experience of these take down rifles?

 

[Brithunter]

Sorry but I have no idea what they even look like .

 

[Pine Marten]

For what you want the Blaser K95 would be a pretty good bet. Buy it now, before you blow all you money on a pram!

James

Prams are expensive, but they're a steal compared to bloody soft furnishings... I'm going to have to keep the Blaser K95 for my midlife crisis I think.

As regards the Merkel Helix, here's a review with some prices: Slicker than slick

 

[bewsher500]

very slick and novel design ideas

fecking ugly though!

 

[Brithunter]

I have to agree they dropped the ball with the awful angular styling. Sadly it seems to be the in thing. Just look at some of the "Modern" O/U shotguns and it's transferred over to some Doube rifles too. I guess angular lines are easier to draw in cad-cam.

Even pretty wood cannot help my in my eyes.

 

[Hornet 6]

Pfeiffer SR2 - so short there's no need to disassemble it http://www.pfeifer-waffen.at/en/home.html

That's what I chose, total length without mod 27 1/2 inches.
So far it is performing very well, still working up a load for it which is not easy as everything has pretty much given a single ragged hole on my 75 yard range.

Neil.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I don't suppose that you have a picture? As regards point 1, presumably it's the receiver that goes in the bin and not the good barrel? However this sounds like splicing together two rifles rather than adapting just one.

Thats right. but as mausers are still ten a penny in germany nobody looses sleep over wrecking one.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Whats the best price anyone has seen on the Merkel RX Helix ?
And does anyone have experience of these take down rifles?

My pal Klaus is a dealer in Germany & he has sent this one over to Canada (1x Merkel Helix silver with arabeske engraving in .30-06) I could ask him prices if anyone is really interested.
I checked and the USA price was 3800 dollars unengraved.
Martin