yes this is the way to go just shoot it and save yourself all that unnecessary bother
Breaking in a new rifle...?
- Thread starter BunnyDoom
- Start date
yes this is the way to go just shoot it and save yourself all that unnecessary bother
Wingers243
Well-Known Member
Tackleberry270
Well-Known Member
Very interesting. The link to the forum discussion is also interesting. Not least the comment made by Mr McMillan about nylon brushes being more abrasive and damaging that brass! Anyone else heard this from other reliable sources?
I've read it on a lot of american forums and websites but I don't know how reliable it is!
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
When you lap steel you use a softer material not a harder one. Nylon is abrasive and also absorbs water which is why Nylon was not used on any of the fuel handling stuff we made at Risbridger.
Wingers243
Well-Known Member
So in summary half of you say do the barrel break in thing, and the other half say it makes no difference, and there's an equally strong argument for both?!
Mr McMillan does suggest an initial shooting procedure. His is just a much shorter than the recognised barrel break-in. Equally, that seems to be related to the highest quality barrels. I would to tend to agree with his assertion that the best shot from the best quality, properly finished barrel is the first one whereafter everything goes slowly downhill.
He does infer there is some advantage in shooting in your standard factory barrel that might have been chambered with a partially worn-out reamer to remove burrs. The round count required is enormous though and I would probably just let it settle through the course of normal shooting & cleaning.
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Forgive me for being dense but what was Mr McMillans suggested procedure for the short break-in?
Wingers243
Well-Known Member
It's hidden in the third para: 5 shots, a through clean then repeat once. After that clean as often as possible, preferably ever 10 rounds minimum during the course of normal
Use.
Use.
Tom D
Well-Known Member
I have been giving this some thought recently as I am about to take delivery of my new walther barreled sako. Having read a fair bit on the net about break in and seen a big variation in advice one thing is clear: the state of the barrel to start with has to have a bearing on how you ought to treat it. I think a well made aftermarket barrel will need far less attention than a factory rifle will, look at this video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf9zZqn00CA the point of the break in process is surely to remove as many of the tooling marks as possible as these will only collect copper and other fouling. I suspect Gale McMillan is so used to dealing with precision made barrels that he has forgottrn the difference between his own workmanship and that of a remmington or equivalent. If I had bought a factory rifle I would break it in carefully and thoroughly, I will worry less about my walther when It arrives, assuming it is as good as the Lilja in the video, I hope so!
Dan Gliballs
Well-Known Member
For me a new rifle get the same treatment as an old one, you take it out the cupboard, shoot it, give it a wipe down and put it away. I dont bother with the cleaning bit, itl be getting dirty again the day after anyway.
I'm not Larry Potterfield...
Most advice talks about numbers, but it's always best to be clear on what you are looking to achieve and act accordingly. every barrel - even from same maker can be different.
The break-in process is looking to apply a finish to the bore. Some argue it is a polish, others that they are sealing pores and imperfections. The reality ( as usual ) is a bit of both. And that's not leave out those who believe it to be a waste of time!
From dealing with hundreds of rifles, I believe it is worth doing.
At the outset, keep in mind it is possible to wear out/ damage a bore faster by incorrect 'cleaning' than by shooting.
Good kit pays for itself time after time. There's lots of good kit and some bad kit out there. I use Dewey rods - they work for me and they are my go to rod. We sell them, because I use them - not the other way round - but be aware of that bias on my part. There are plenty of other good rods. Look for a good bearing system, no exposed steel, a good cover/sheathing - or appropriate rod material. Avoid jointed rods as your main system - most have some flex and risk bore contact. Keep all rods clean and free from grit.
Bore guides are a good idea - you want them to centre the rod, minimise scraping in the bolt -way, avoid throat damage and rod to rifling contact. Not least it helps if they assist in stopping solvent leaking into the action & stock. Possum Hollow tick all my boxes - if someone can let me know why they seem impossible to get just now I'd be grateful - we've a number on backorder since May and Possum Hollow won't answer my e mails & calls! In that vein - if anyone knows of a good small batch plastic tube extruder/ turning company in NE Scotland we are seriously looking at getting something made.
To stop solvent leak it needs to be a good fit - or have a suitable o ring seal - as per Possum Hollow ( which is what Larry uses )
A good bore solvent - again there are lots to choose from. I like Butch's Bore Shine, Tetra, Shooters Choice - there are others. For Copper removal I like Forrest Foam. Wipe out is popular on here - seems to work just fine.
Good jag and patches - prefer spear type - as supplied with Dewey rod. Patch drops off at muzzle.
Brushes - prefer nylon to brass. We are using a copper/brass solvent, its going to attack a brass brush, re-depositing the very stuff we are trying to get out. The centre spine should be something softer than the bore and finished in a tight loop rather than cut with exposed ends - risking scratches. Nylon works well.
All brushes are grit magnets - they should be cleaned well after use and stored in a clean container. Brake cleaner is a good way to neutralise the solvent on the brush. Forget specialist shooting solvents - brake cleaner from Halfords is cheaper. Or if in my line of work buy it by the 5 litre can from an autofactor!
Some form of cradle makes life easier - sand bags or a slotted cardboard box does the same job as a specialist shooter clamp/vice/ rest.
Take new rifle. Strip and clean/ relube. Set it in your vice/ box/ stuffed Larry Potterfield etc.
Fit bore guide. Run a couple of solvent wet patches through the bore and give it a minute. Wet patch again, then run dry patches through. If they come out spotless, you're done. If getting grey/ black streaks then try either a patch of brake cleaner or the nylon brush through a bore solvent wet barrel.
Can be a pain, but do until you get a dry white patch out.
Remove bore guide and carefully wipe out chamber.
Fire first shot. Pause to marvel at what a great rifle you bought
Repeat the above. This time as you push the cleaning rod up the bore, let it feedback to you what's going on.
Likely it'll be harder to push than the first time. There's a good chance you feel particular resistance about 7-9" ahead of the chamber.
You need to get the barrel back to pristine. Give the solvent time to work. When you think you are there, hold the final white, dry patch about an inch short of the muzzle and have a close look in bright light. If you see any streaks, keep going.
This is the impractical bit for those without ready range access. Have a read of the notes on the Border Barrels website - they leave Bore Foam in overnight - effectively firing one shot a day. That simply may not work for most people time wise.
Very careful and thats VERY - use of JB compound can speed things a little. But far better to allow chemical rather than mechanical action to shift the fouling.
Fire second shot. Repeat as above. This time there will likely be an easier push through the barrel. It wont be perfect, but it will get easier - if not this time, then at some point over the first 5-7 rounds.
Repeat process for at least first ten rounds - it will make a difference.
Given freehand and time, I will do this over however long it takes. Until the point is reached where I can tell by experience that the rod 'feels right'. Smoothly going up the entire length of the bore. Check with white patch at this stage and there should be very minimal or non existent streaks. Dry, the bore should be starting to look polished.
Most Tikkas/Sako/Howa its between 8-14 rounds in total. Sauers/ Blaser tend to be there within 5-6 rounds.
Brownings/ Ruger/ Remington - 15-20.
Thereafter repeat after every 5 rounds for at least two cycles.
A lot of effort? Yep - but you are investing up front. Think of the ammo you'll save in the long run - many rifles will behave without needing a fouling shot after proper break-in. Cleaning will tend to be a couple of wet patches, wait 15 minutes, final wet patch and three dry and you're done.
Many will disagree - that's fine. I often have to abridge this process with clients collecting new rifles - where ( understandably ) they want to be the first to shoot it. Even abridged, they can feel the difference and the improvement over 5 or 6 rounds.
Let us know how you get on.
+1 from USA. Right on the money. The son or daughter that inherits the rifle will similarly benefit from the extra effort now.
PeterH
Well-Known Member
The prime reason why I would never buy a secondhand rifle
You've never owned a second hand rifle? Gad. I think I can count the new centerfire rifles I have purchased on one hand but have lost count of the 2nd (third, fourth, eleventy-leventh) hand rifles that I have owned. My two most accurate .224 bore prairiedog rifles were dirty and abused when I bought them. One had a worn crown, the other had a bulge at the muzzle. Both got hacksawed and recrowned. Both shoot in the .3 -.4 MOA range.
In my experience, cleaning is highly over-rated.~Muir
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
PeterH
Well-Known Member
Thought would prompt you into action Muir lol. Trouble is rifles in the UK whether new or secondhand are generally much more expensive than the States. Quoting your case with the 224 calibres, to have that done with a qualified gunsmith, the bill added to the original cost of the secondhand rifle would not be far short of a new rifle.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
A long way short of the cost of a new rifle
I have three 2nd hand rifles ("pre-owned" to be more accurate, as I suspect they are all more like 7th hand!)
not one cost me more than £100, one actually paid me £20 to own it when I sold on the scope that came with it.
They all shoot better than I can and with a bit of research and application look infinitely better than many of the poorly finished plastic fantastic offering on the shelves today.
I have spent probably £80 in gunsmithing and that was because I wanted one of them shortened, recrowned and screw cut, something that I have to admit is beyond even my handyman skills!
PeterH
Well-Known Member
Bewsher - I take your point, obviously there are bargains to be had. Last time in my neck of the woods I cast my eye over a rack of rifles the secondhand ones appeared to have averaged around the £300/350 mark - different areas different prices no doubt. Your £80 cost I assumed did not include Proof House costs and the accompanying TNT transit costs?
Peter
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
Peter there is nothing in law that required a screw cut or shortened muzzle to be re-proofed........................................... nothing.
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