SD deer dog register

[straightbetweentheeyes]

As with my first thread states any one taking money off clients should have a competent dog to follow up. With a lot of sport lots of hunters expect others to have dogs to pick up or find lost quarry, does anyone think before going out they firstly should have in their minds only safe and accurate shots should be taken and also know and arrange prior back up with the people with dogs available in the local area? As for looking for one after 72hrs as some one said would in my opinion be disgraceful, even the american blood hounds would be struggling. With regards to the springer spaniel if trained right there is no reason why not, as with labs they are used on a great number of different jobs and excel at them all.

American bloodhounds? You been watching too much Rambo....

 

[widu]

Hi Howy ,
Yes I'm sure most Pro stalkers have a dog trained to find fresh shot deer or the availability of one. As straightbeetweentheeyes says American Blood Hounds,???.
sorry but to much telly ??.
Also we are not here to argue on the merits of breeds.
​Also looking for a wounded Beast 72 hrs after the shot is not disgraceful on the contrary it shows that the hunter has the highest regard for his quarry. I could tell you a story here but can't be arsed as I have just been rung to go track a deer that has been seriously mauled by two dogs. Also I think you are missing the point here we are not talking about stalkers accuracy or ability nor the causes of wounded or injured deer. The OP is about how we can best start something that we the UK stalker of whatever ability can have as backup for when **** happens. OK gota Go.

​ Regards Widu.

 

[bogtrotter]

I think we are already going a little off track, ( no pun intended) it should not matter who calls Pro or not, motorist , Police. No charge.
Reason- If you charge say £50 or £10 if someone wounds a small muntie worth £5 will they ring, answer = probably Not.
This has to be about ending suffering, if you believe that the pro should pay but not the recreational stalker sorry but your wrong lots of recreational guys are much better off than most Pro's. That sounds like a personal gripe to me and if we charge what if we fail to find the beast do we give the money back. It has to be no charge end of.
We need to agree a standard to get on the register first, before we worry about whether we call a registered team or an unregistered team.
Also hopefully the pro and everyone should ring someone on the register no matter how big the head of the beast or what sex it is if they need to.

I would agree with that it would need to be free of charge and exactly for the reasons mentioned, but on the other side of the coin for the register to be effective there would need to be someone you could call regardless
of where you are in the country from Caithness to Cornwall.


So how far are you expected to travel? what do you do when the nearest person on the register is more than a hundred miles away? do you charge expenses?even charging expenses could make some considering calling out someone on the register have second thoughts, the cost of paying fuel costs possible overnight accommodation
if the the tracking team have had to travel a long distance, the charges could outweigh any revenue from the venison or trophy which ever, and what if as the poster says you don't find the animal, I know these should not be the main concern, but we are talking human nature.

Also from the tracking teams point of view how many can afford to travel these distances pay for there own accommodation if needed, take time of work at the drop of a hat, possibly loosing a days earnings or maybe even two depending on distance involved

IMO for the service to be effective I would need to know that someone will set off to help me when I make that call, to be told that they cant be with me for 24 or worse 48 hours would not make me keen to use the service.

How many people can provide that sort of dedication for free.

So while as the poster has said the service should be free and in an ideal situation I thing it should be.

Maybe to get a tracking dog when we need it, not when someone can manage, we need to be prepared to pay.

I am not being negative about the service, these are just some thoughts I have on the issue perhaps you can answer some of them and tell me how you see the service working.

 

[straightbetweentheeyes]

And there answers the question why there is need for dogs that can track 48-72hr old tracks... And if we can get enough people involved with the right dogs that can do an effective job where others cannot then hopefully we will have enough teams up and down the country to not have to worry about someone travelling hundreds of miles and stopping in a hotel or whatever... I know it takes four ours from my door to widu's, split that in half and I'm sure he will travel two hours south and I'd certainly travel two hours north so that's a fair chunk coverd with just two teams...

 

[The mighty buck]

sounds like a great idea and once my teckel is fully trained and prooved (she has already found 1 wounded buck which was 18 hours old in a thick plantation, 1 stag that ran and dropped in thick cover and a doe that did the same so she is well on her way) then i would love to be added to the list.

In europe they use a novice dog behind a fully qualified dog to help train the younger dog what are peoples opinions of that over here?

i dont think you can expect people to leave their work and come at the drop of a hat, but IMO the tracker would come as soon as he could and if its not a huge journey then it should be a free service but i suppose the hope would be that if it was a long way then the stalker could perhaps help contribute a little to the fuel and maybe put them up for the night (although as BT said i am sure it would not come to that as there are so many keen trackers out there.)
i think we have to be realistic in that not many tracker will be able to come immediatley, and at most i reckon proably would not have to travel much more than 1 and half hours in either direction, if you make the system simple and stress free as possible there would be enough teams based around the country to cope with the distance.

 

[cookingfat]

I would agree with that it would need to be free of charge and exactly for the reasons mentioned, but on the other side of the coin for the register to be effective there would need to be someone you could call regardless
of where you are in the country from Caithness to Cornwall.


So how far are you expected to travel? what do you do when the nearest person on the register is more than a hundred miles away? do you charge expenses?even charging expenses could make some considering calling out someone on the register have second thoughts, the cost of paying fuel costs possible overnight accommodation
if the the tracking team have had to travel a long distance, the charges could outweigh any revenue from the venison or trophy which ever, and what if as the poster says you don't find the animal, I know these should not be the main concern, but we are talking human nature.

Also from the tracking teams point of view how many can afford to travel these distances pay for there own accommodation if needed, take time of work at the drop of a hat, possibly loosing a days earnings or maybe even two depending on distance involved

IMO for the service to be effective I would need to know that someone will set off to help me when I make that call, to be told that they cant be with me for 24 or worse 48 hours would not make me keen to use the service.

How many people can provide that sort of dedication for free.

So while as the poster has said the service should be free and in an ideal situation I thing it should be.

Maybe to get a tracking dog when we need it, not when someone can manage, we need to be prepared to pay.

I am not being negative about the service, these are just some thoughts I have on the issue perhaps you can answer some of them and tell me how you see the service working.

bogtrotter, these are all good and thoughtful questions, and no resister can be setup until there are enough track teams in place all over the country, and that's not going to happen until the training and tests are completed, these things are all going to take a lot of time and they have too to give any register any credibility, if you look at the map in my first post you will see the Danes have a net work of teams all over the there country, this did not happen over night...!!

Regards Tony

 

[bogtrotter]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Tony.

I can see what you are trying to do ,and wish you the best of luck with it, as you say it will take
some time to train and test enough teams to cover the country.

 

[widu]

B T. Good questions. It has to be free to work, if you put money into this mostly stressful equation and with human nature as it is it will not ever be workable. It has to be open to all, and those on the register to start with most likely will have more travelling than is really acceptable till we have enough tracking teams who have proved their ability.
As for coming immediately when you call be serious it ain't going to be 999 lights flashing. You are in Perthshire about 4 hrs for me and if it is evening when it happens I will be there next day if possible. Now if there is a team in your area it will still be next day, that is why all dogs and handler must be able to track a 24 Hr old track no blood.
In a perfect world in the future we might have a team in every county and more than one so if one is at work another will assist, but as Tony said this is a while away.So what do you mean if it is 24 or 48 hrs till they can be with you you don't think you would use the service !! surely if the team is successful it is worth the wait.
As has can be seen by the posts there is a real desire to get this up and running we know the full perfect system is going to be a while but there is help now if you need it .
​ Regards WIDU.

 

[Rhinoshot]

If I can get a dog to the required standard then I would be proud to be a part of such an organisation. I just wonder how long it will take before arguments and abuse breaks out about training or strong opinions etc etc. Hopefully none at all. If there is a meeting about how to set it up and move forward I would be interested in attending as a hopeful future team. perhaps such an organisation could have some occasional meetings and training on reaching the required standard.. whatever that is.. 24hr track with no blood! Or whatever. However it moves forward I would like to be a part of it as it is a great idea and something I would love to support in whatever way possible until I can be a hands on team!

 

[Wolverine]

Widu....are these posts written by your Mrs?
You must be sedated as they are incredibly diplomatic.....Rhinoshot the usual suspects will stay civil if you do.......
Everybody must learn and talk,fair bit of interest in tracking,growing all the time.
Only worth anything if done to a standard that is proven by tests and work.

 

[User00014]

Widu....are these posts written by your Mrs?
You must be sedated as they are incredibly diplomatic.....Rhinoshot the usual suspects will stay civil if you do.......
Everybody must learn and talk,fair bit of interest in tracking,growing all the time.
Only worth anything if done to a standard that is proven by tests and work.

 

[cookingfat]

it good that we are all working together for the common good, diplomatic that's good coming from you George, I recon your mates been out with that gaffer tape lol.
I have spoken to Rhinoshot and he is just as passionate about working his dogs as we all are, in fact he is coming with his dogs to do a test in September, sometimes the written word does not come across the same as when you speak to someone..!

 

[Rhinoshot]

Just in from a 2week old track across 30k!! ok maybe I'm not, but would love to be a part of any future teams once I get a dog to the desired level. I look forward to seeing how this moves forward. Training dogs to the higest possible level and supporting those that need help in doing so should be one part of the ethos of the organisation IMO, after the welfare and humane treatment of game etc etc.... I think this is a very exciting idea. I have come across the American equivelant via whats his face, John jeanenney (spelling) and was surprised there is not something more than just the SD dog register here. Something more formal and something that could become very well known and respected etc, and a household name amoung stalkers. As many have pointed out.. most people do not need such a highly trained dog to do such incredible tracking etc etc.. but some would like to strive toward that and have a dog that they can use as often as possible to keep them at that level. Being a part of such an organisation might give those handlers the opportunity to do so. Anyway.. nothing new in what Im saying.. jsut excited at such a good idea. I hope it goes further than a good idea.. i will look on with interest and hope to attend any future meetings.With time and trust in the professionalism and confidentiality of the handlers ( ie not bad mouthing or talking about a fellow stalkers screw up) I think there would be very few stalkers at some stage in their career would not seek their help. The Second deer I shot was lost... and the guide had a dog!! That showed me the need for a 'real tracking dog' as well as not taking shot one is not comfortable with etc etc..... good to see such positivity and eagerness from all above. cheers ian

 

[Rhinoshot]

very true cookingfat,.....

 

[Wolverine]

it good that we are all working together for the common good, diplomatic that's good coming from you George, I recon your mates been out with that gaffer tape lol.
I have spoken to Rhinoshot and he is just as passionate about working his dogs as we all are, in fact he is coming with his dogs to do a test in September, sometimes the written word does not come across the same as when you speak to someone..!

Hehehe.....you'd have been proud of me today
Duct taped up
​

 

[Wolverine]

very true cookingfat,.....

And.......so is post#73Ian

 

[straightbetweentheeyes]

Hehehe.....you'd have been proud of me today
Duct taped up
​

And now the ductape factory is empty

 

[Wolverine]

And now the ductape factory is empty

Now Jessie play nice

 

[straightbetweentheeyes]

 

[Rhinoshot]

I am bringing Harris home today, an eight week old English Springer. It is my intention to train him on tracking deer. I appreciate that he is not a Bavarian Mountain Hound, a German Wire Haired Pointer etc etc, but he is from a solid working background and I am 100% committed so worth a go I think. Although I am a long long way from any register at the moment, I would really love to consider this in the future when both of us are fit for purpose. If anyone near North Dorset has any help / training to offer, I am seriously interested. I have read all the books but nothing beats talking to real people who are involved.
This is all good stuff.

Talk to Pete at the bavarian Mountain hound Society.. google it. Dont attack me usual suspects... just offering a pointer