Combination rifles

[Pine Marten]

I know what you mean about the weight of a drilling, but people like me who aren't great shotgun shots need the second barrel... You could just go for a 16 or 20 bore, but there's not much in the way of non-toxic shot available for those, and with steel, you need to throw quite a lot into the air. If I were spending the amount that a new Merkel drilling costs, I'd future-proof it with the steel proofed barrels. But if a bargain Ferlach one turned up in 16-bore for instance, I'd live with it quite happily and fork out for Bismuth cartridges if necessary.

 

[perdix]

I must say that I have and still am seriously considering a combination gun as my main vermin gun for taking round my traps with me as you can bet diamonds that when you need a shotgun you have the rifle under your arm and visa versa

 

[howa243]

I must say that I have and still am seriously considering a combination gun as my main vermin gun for taking round my traps with me as you can bet diamonds that when you need a shotgun you have the rifle under your arm and visa versa

That's exactly what I use mine for and is brilliant for that job. No one weapon is perfect for all jobs but these are pretty close. There accuracy is good enough whilst at the same time being able to take birds on the wing or a squirrel out of a tree. I also have a 12 over 7x57r and am much less sold on this. I think if I were stalking I would not take up the chance of a squirrel or pigeon. But as a truck/vermin gun they are really very good. Mine has a short barrel and is really quite light.

 

[perdix]

That's not helping howa LOL.
Might have a walk to the local police station and get a variation form,just in case you understand

 

[Pine Marten]

There are five in the next Holt's auction. I think I'll pop in after work this evening and do some drilling research...

 

[Heym SR20]

There are five in the next Holt's auction. I think I'll pop in after work this evening and do some drilling research...

Mmmm - some nice rifles there, but that 6x62r freres single shot by Blaser looks really nice, and there is also a scruffy old 22lr / 20 bore that is also kind of nice.

 

[perdix]

That is an interesting looking thing Heym!

Does anyone know anything about the Savage combinations?

 

[Dalua]

You are not confusing a drilling with a combination are you Matt? Many drillings (vierling) could have two or more rifled barrels depending on the arrangement where as a combination will only have one rifle barrel and one shotgun barrel. So multiple rifle shots are possible. Also some use barrel inserts in shotgun barrels to give another rifled barrel.

Useful pics! Here are some more...

and on this site http://www.fanzoj.com/de/gunroom/custom_built_weapons/other_rifles/index.html

Just to clarify,
Drilling in German means triplet (drei, of course, meaning three)
Vierling similarly means quadruplet.
These words, therefore, refer to three- and four-barrelled weapons respectively.

The diagrams on the Fanzoj site helpfully differentiate between smallbore and larger rifle-barrels. The possibilities seem to end only where your pockets do!
One of my favourites (theoretically - I've never owned or used one) is the Waldlaeufer- or Schienendrilling, which superficially looks like a s/s shotgun, but has a .22 (LR or, perhaps more usefully, Magnum or Hornet) barrel in the rib, and a rear leaf-sight that pops up when the rifle barrel is selected.

 

[Pine Marten]

Right, here are the results of my little research trip to Holt's, during which I wanted to establish whether drillings were really unwieldly, how they handled as a shotgun, essentially whether they'd be pleasant to use. There were five on offer, and honestly, where are you going to see five drillinsg together in the UK apart from here? So here are links to them all:

KRIEGHOFF A LITTLE-USED 'OPTIMA' 12-BORE (3IN.) / 7x57R NON-EJECTOR DRILLING
KRIEGHOFF A 12-BORE / 6,5X55 'KRIEGHOFF TRUMPF' BOXLOCK NON-EJECTOR DRILLING with .22 Hornet insert
FORTUNA (SUHL) A 16-BORE / 7X57R BOXLOCK NON-EJECTOR DRILLING
SUHL A 12-BORE / 8X57JRS BOXLOCK NON-EJECTOR DRILLING
A.W. WOLF (SUHL) 12-BORE / 8X57JRS BOXLOCK NON-EJECTOR DRILLING

The two Krieghoff ones and the other three form two distinct groups, with the last three all being lighter and built on the exact same pattern pretty much, with a scalloped boxlock action and a Greener-style side safety. The Krieghoff ones are much heavier, especially the one with the barrel insert which weighs a tonne, and it didn't even have a scope on it. So that's a drawback of the Einstecklauf. The 16-bore one was light as a feather. I compared them with a random side-by-side 12 bore for handling, and the 12-bore ones are a bit heavier, but lighter than my 12/89 side-by-side 'fowling piece and I've carried that for miles with no real trouble. So that's not really a problem.

What seems to be really important is wood quality. A couple of the older Suhl ones looked like they were suffering. They may have had the stock rearranged somewhat amateurishly at some point, but I think that this is a really key aspect. Otherwise, the barrels on all were fantastic, with a special mention to the first Krieghoff one which despite having steel-proofed 12/76 barrels had really thin barrels, and it was pretty much new, so it must be great steel.

 

[howa243]

If you are serious QR mounts are important and can be very expensive if not in with the deal.

If enough of us get end up with them then a combination/drilling competition would be great.

 

[Pine Marten]

If you are serious QR mounts are important and can be very expensive if not in with the deal.

All of them had QR mount bases built into the ribs. I'm not sure how easy it would be to find the top half, although it does seem to be a pretty standard design.

 

[howa243]

I have a Merkel in 12 over 7x57r and it is a lovely thing to behold. Crap rifle trigger though and iron sights are a joke.

 

[Mr. Gain]

All of them had QR mount bases built into the ribs. I'm not sure how easy it would be to find the top half, although it does seem to be a pretty standard design.

Thanks for popping over to Holt's and reporting back on the Drillings there. Most interesting.

As regards the scope mounts, Suhler/Ferlacher claw mounts begin as standard patterns, but I have it on what I take to be good authority that they have to be hand filed and fitted to fit the gun perfectly if they are to hold zero, and this costs money. For example, I was thinking of acquiring a mount for my Docter sight for my gun. The mount itself costs c.€40 but the bill for fitting it would have been c.£200.

If you are thinking of buying, when you go back, it might therefore be worth looking to see if they have any scopes with the right type of mount in the sale, and enquiring whether they were previously associated with the drilling you are most interested in. It's just possible they have been split up into separate lots (though this actually makes a scope equipped with claw mounts less desirable than it would be when paired with the gun the mounts were fitted to.

 

[Pine Marten]

Usually they're sold with the scopes, but these were nowhere to be seen in this sale. The prices were quite reasonable though. I am genuinely planning to buy one in time, but not just now. However as with my bolt action, I plan on enjoying the research in the meantime. I need to see some, handle some, although trying some will be hard. I quite liked the one in 16-bore from a handling perspective, it would just mean that it's not much use for ducks. I'm not that fussed on the choice between 7x57R or 7x65R. So when the time comes, I'd happily pick up a second hand one in any combination of those rifle calibres and 12 or 16 bore, and I'd look for one that comes with the full set of mounts, and with wood in good shape. I have yet to see a Merkel one in the flesh, particularly a K96. The Krieghoff ones feel too mechanical somehow, they lack soul, great as they are. I saw a Blaser o/u combination and that had the same sort of problem, although it was light and handled well. I just didn't like the look and feel of it somehow.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I think the observation you made about the newest Drilling having the lightest barrels is a significant one. For a long time 16g shotgun barrels made sense because the 12g alternative caused the gun to cross a threshold of unweildiness for most people. But with improved metallurgy and manusfacturing it has become possible to make lighter barrels that are also affordable, and to produce a much more agreeable 12g Drilling.

As for wildfowling loads, you may not be able to throw a heavy charge of shot, but reloading with a Lee load-all is a practical alternative to trying to source commercial non-toxic 16g cartridges.

 

[Pine Marten]

There are a couple of other point to look out for. The older drillings have ~63cm long barrels, the new ones are around the ~55cm mark, so that must shave off something like 300-400gr. I wonder thought whether the shorter barrels don't make the 7x57R a better choice than the 7x65R, because I don't know whether the barrels are long enough for the extra energy to develop on the longer round. I noticed that the brand new high-tech Krieghoff was chambered in the older 7x57R cartridge. Any expert opinions here?

Oh, and some of the older ones don't have a separate cocking button for the rifled barrel, which means that it's potentially possible to fire off the wrong one.

 

[matt_hooks]

Completely off topic, but that Holts auction, lot 1222......

I'd never fire it, just sit there and cuddle it!

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.co...st=D&sale_no=A121213&subs_value=35&index=view

 

[charadam]

Thank you for the Holt's link.

Some surprising prices, both low and high.

At a rough count, around 40% of lots unsold.

Perhaps the 25% buyers' premium plus VAT on hammer price AND buyers' premium might be putting folks off.

Hammer falls at £1000. Total price to you £1500!

 

[perdix]

Frightening isn't it?!
If you are registered with them you should get a link for a fixed price sale in a few days

 

[Pine Marten]

I'll tell you what, if I receive an email saying that the Krieghoff 7x57R one is going for £150 for a quick sale...

I can't find the sale results, where are they?