Start your own deer farm ...how difficult ?
- Thread starter Johno100
- Start date
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
no, why is this complicated? Parks are basically deer reserves that often hold a stock of rare or endangered deer like PD's but obviously need managed with old and excess deer being culled or moved. Farms generate meat and their aims are completely different to this.
Having said that, dead deer must go though the same inspection process before and once they're in the system whether park or farm. Some farms are also game dealers so their product gains value by processing. The objectives and purpose of a farm is completely incompatible with a open to the public park.
Having said that, dead deer must go though the same inspection process before and once they're in the system whether park or farm. Some farms are also game dealers so their product gains value by processing. The objectives and purpose of a farm is completely incompatible with a open to the public park.
Hi Paul, I think you're making huge assumptions unfortunately. Any fenced area is an enclosure, it matters not if it's 1 acre or 3000 acres. If you read my post in context, and in reply to another poster you'll hopefully now understand the point I was making.
Incidentally, I do understand the differences between 'parks' and 'farms' you are trying to highlight but it is not that clear cut. Chatsworth near me for example offers the opportunity to stalk trophy animals, but I'll give you just one guess where the venison in its farm shop comes from.
As for Woburn being synonomous with conservation, this is true, and anyone with an IQ over 100 should understand that there is no issue with them selling off trophy animals as part of their management plan. This does not conflict with conservation work at all in my book, indeed it finances it to some extent, an unfortunate reality for many bunny hugger types! And if anyone objects, I'd suggest they set up their own conservation based deer park and find their own ways of meeting the running costs, and good luck to them. They'll need it.
Now if we can all carry on without making assumption hopefully the thread will get back on track.
Incidentally, if I were to keep a few deer and did have a particularly good stag who was going back, I may well offer him to a stalker. It's not a scenario where I would personally choose to take an animal as a stalker, but, if additional income can be earned by a farm to meet it's running costs then why not? I certainly wouldn't criticise any deer 'farmer' offering this kind of opportunity. I'd just not call it stalking, and hope the individual taking the animal didn't either.
I'd also sell the antlers of lesser stags on ebay etc to earn additional income.
Last edited:
howa243
Well-Known Member
Hi Paul, I think you're making huge assumptions unfortunately. Any fenced area is an enclosure, it matters not if it's 1 acre or 3000 acres. If you read my post in context, and in reply to another poster you'll hopefully now understand the point I was making.
Incidentally, I do understand the differences between 'parks' and 'farms' you are trying to highlight but it is not that clear cut. Chatsworth near me for example offers the opportunity to stalk trophy animals, but I'll give you just one guess where the venison in its farm shop comes from.
As for Woburn being synonomous with conservation, this is true, and anyone with an IQ over 100 should understand that there is no issue with them selling off trophy animals as part of their management plan. This does not conflict with conservation work at all in my book, indeed it finances it to some extent, an unfortunate reality for many bunny hugger types! And if anyone objects, I'd suggest they set up their own conservation based deer park and find their own ways of meeting the running costs, and good luck to them. They'll need it.
Now if we can all carry on without making assumption hopefully the thread will get back on track.
Incidentally, if I were to keep a few deer and did have a particularly good stag who was going back, I may well offer him to a stalker. It's not a scenario where I would personally choose to take an animal as a stalker, but, if additional income can be earned by a farm to meet it's running costs then why not? I certainly wouldn't criticise any deer 'farmer' offering this kind of opportunity. I'd just not call it stalking, and hope the individual taking the animal didn't either.
I'd also sell the antlers of lesser stags on ebay etc to earn additional income.
You would need to find these additional income streams. A red hind will have one calf and possibly not every year. If you sell it as a calf you will get £60/£70. I would imagine there is more money in sheep, more work too though.
See this is why I mentioned farming species other than the usual reds and fallow. Logic dictates that these must be the most cost effective species to farm for 'venison'.
But, muntjac is widely regarded as better tasting than red, the species has higher fecundity, and there are always smart restaurants out there looking for high quality, unique products. So, could Munties be farmed commercially? Has anyone ever tried it? Could the farmer achieve a higher rate for their venison from a more 'exotic' species?
I do know a chap who investigated commercial fish farming of exotic frshwater fish species. The sort of fish you're likely to see in public aquaria, rather than on the shelves in Tesco's. His idea fell flat on it's face, probably due to the fact that as a nation the UK is amazngly ignorant of freshwater food fish, so I think anyone trying exotic deer would have a small mountain to climb, but wonder if the right person could pull it off?
howa243
Well-Known Member
So you would have to have all the necessary facilities to butcher the animals and sell direct to restaurants then? It may be cheaper to act as a game dealer and simply offer £10 a carcass instead of £5 for a munty. Less agro a constant supply and leaving you free to develop the market. If muntjac were worth a lot to the end user they would go up in value at the game dealers I would imagine.
Last edited:
howa243
Well-Known Member
Don't mean to argumentative but I really don't understand this.
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
MJ75, no I don't get your point and as for 1 acre or 3000 acre making no difference (12 sq km compared to a football pitch).....
I'm pretty sure it does to the deer and the range they can freely cover or not as they turn an enclosed paddock to mud.
As for farming deer, it's about yield. You're more than likely not going to get a movement license for live munties or exotics without a zoo license. It's reds and fallow for the most, easy to raise, good yields and easy to move so anything else smaller is just stupid.
If you want to think of parks as being just big farms that's up to you but they are reserves that promote high quality deer herds accessible to the public. The consequence of the large size of parks is that the deer numbers across the estate as a whole are high but must be kept in check so lots of culling is usually essential. Farms are meat making businesses and aim for as many deer as their holdings can support to increase output.
I'm pretty sure it does to the deer and the range they can freely cover or not as they turn an enclosed paddock to mud.As for farming deer, it's about yield. You're more than likely not going to get a movement license for live munties or exotics without a zoo license. It's reds and fallow for the most, easy to raise, good yields and easy to move so anything else smaller is just stupid.
If you want to think of parks as being just big farms that's up to you but they are reserves that promote high quality deer herds accessible to the public. The consequence of the large size of parks is that the deer numbers across the estate as a whole are high but must be kept in check so lots of culling is usually essential. Farms are meat making businesses and aim for as many deer as their holdings can support to increase output.
Last edited:
That's not really what I said, but if you could cut out the middle man in order to achieve a higher value for your product, then that makes good business sense to me. Obviously it should go without saying that legalities would have to be observed here. My post was really just asking if other species would be more viable to farm than the usual reds and fallow, munties are simply an example.
Buying in additional animals from stalkers and also acting as a game dealer would potentially make sense in addition to running a deer farm. But you'd be better placed than me to advise if it's a viable business plan!
Ah Paul, I tried to make it easy to understand, deliberately mentioning my thread in context to someone else. If you fail to grasp that I'm not really sure how I can explain it in any simpler terms. An enclosure is an enclosure in that context. No need for daft symantics. You're either hunting in a fenced area or you're not, regardless of the size, ethics were not being discussed, nor was the behaviour of the captive animals.
Yield is only one factor, the price of that yield from your market place is quite important too. That's very basic business sense!
Have you farmed munties, samba or white tail? I agree getting a license would be interesting especially when you consider the origins of CWD, munties etc. But that's not really the point either.
Yield is only one factor, the price of that yield from your market place is quite important too. That's very basic business sense!
Have you farmed munties, samba or white tail? I agree getting a license would be interesting especially when you consider the origins of CWD, munties etc. But that's not really the point either.
howa243
Well-Known Member
Kind of you to say but I am probably not. As I say I have quite a few Reds and Sika but they are not meant as an income source so I cannot validate the economics of the idea directly. I do know from reading posts on the site the rough value of venison for various species and it appears that Muntjac are not very valuable. If this is the so then this is has to be the case because the end user does not value to the product over and above other species. If you can generate interest in the product because of its enhance flavour, quality, tenderness then that would be great and would help support the idea and lift prices. Without doing so I fear the idea has no legs.
What I do know is that providing deer with an environment within which they will thrive and supporting them through the winter is a hard work and not inexpensive in terms of work or money. I can see little chance of selling venison from a few acres under wire currently being a viable market to enter.
As you are not far away and sound like someone who may be interested in starting such a venture you would be very welcome to come and have a look at my place should you think this could be of any value to you.
Last edited:
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Obvious answer to why red and fallow are most commonly farmed is that they readily group as a herd. Therefore in a farm environment they are likely to tolerate being enclosed with a relatively high density of other animals of their species.
as well as the above point, there is obviously a much larger meat yield per beast. I'd rather skin and process one fallow than have to skin 5 or 6 Munties to get the same amount of meat!
in addition to the above, the cuts of meat available off muntjac carcasses do not readily allow for steak meat therefore might only be saleable as diced venison (mostly), which commands a lower price at thee supermarket.
as well as the above point, there is obviously a much larger meat yield per beast. I'd rather skin and process one fallow than have to skin 5 or 6 Munties to get the same amount of meat!
in addition to the above, the cuts of meat available off muntjac carcasses do not readily allow for steak meat therefore might only be saleable as diced venison (mostly), which commands a lower price at thee supermarket.
Howa, thank you that is a very kind offer. I'm not looking at starting a deer farm. My replies are really to try and encourage the OP. Munties are an example, probably a very, very bad one! I was just encouraging him to think outside the box.
Four years ago, I decided to start a 'hobby business' on top of my full time job. I'd decided I was going to do things a little bit differently to the competition and attempt to sell products which were considerably more costly than the mainstream and mooted the idea on a few forums. I got told that it would fail, blah blah, yada, yada, that I was an idiot etc etc. Mostly by people who have no experience of running any kind of business, and a couple of others in the industry that did things in a more traditional way. I gave it a go and we were very successful.
Next I decided to try and produce some of the products here in the UK, rather than importing them. Again I was told on online forums that I was stupid and that it would not work due to my ideas not being cost effective, blah blah, yada yada. I fed off the negativity and decided to give it a go, we now make 25% more margin on the stuff we produce here in the UK than I would do if I imported it.
And while the industry I'm involved in couldn't be more different from deer farming, I can see a lot of parallels in the way this thread is going. Unfortunately there is a lot of negativity in the UK. This is very aparent on online forums frequented by nay sayers.
I'd be very pleased to see the OP and yourself manage to run a successful deer farm, or anyone else for that matter. Especially if the person has thought 'out of the box' and come up with a new method that works for them.
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
look MJ75, you're talking rubbish, offering up terrible business ideas and promoting the idea of gambling an investment on an unknown format. This without understanding the difference between a park and a farm. Great! we're sold!
Not to mention a complete disregard for setup costs and the kind of hard work needed to get a farming start off the ground and running.
Not to mention a complete disregard for setup costs and the kind of hard work needed to get a farming start off the ground and running.
tackb
Well-Known Member
Howa, thank you that is a very kind offer. I'm not looking at starting a deer farm. My replies are really to try and encourage the OP. Munties are an example, probably a very, very bad one! I was just encouraging him to think outside the box.
Four years ago, I decided to start a 'hobby business' on top of my full time job. I'd decided I was going to do things a little bit differently to the competition and attempt to sell products which were considerably more costly than the mainstream and mooted the idea on a few forums. I got told that it would fail, blah blah, yada, yada, that I was an idiot etc etc. Mostly by people who have no experience of running any kind of business, and a couple of others in the industry that did things in a more traditional way. I gave it a go and we were very successful.
Next I decided to try and produce some of the products here in the UK, rather than importing them. Again I was told on online forums that I was stupid and that it would not work due to my ideas not being cost effective, blah blah, yada yada. I fed off the negativity and decided to give it a go, we now make 25% more margin on the stuff we produce here in the UK than I would do if I imported it.
And while the industry I'm involved in couldn't be more different from deer farming, I can see a lot of parallels in the way this thread is going. Unfortunately there is a lot of negativity in the UK. This is very aparent on online forums frequented by nay sayers.
I'd be very pleased to see the OP and yourself manage to run a successful deer farm, or anyone else for that matter. Especially if the person has thought 'out of the box' and come up with a new method that works for them.
A 'can do' attitude ! I like it !
too many negative people in the world already..........
people used to think the world was flat till someone actually had a look!!!!!
Paul, I thought you were more intelligent than that. I've not offered any business ideas, I've encouraged others to think about how they can achieve their dreams. That's not really the same thing. It's very sad that you're resorting to silly, childish comments about the differences between parks and farms when you've already been advised that there are some grey areas between the two.
I'm sure the OP will keep looking into his idea and hopefully he'll pull it off one day.
I've dropped you a PM, so we can continue this thoroughly rivetting and very valuable discussion if you feel the need to, without boring others.
P.S "We're sold"? Who exactly is 'we'?
Last edited:
And having travelled quite extensively it pains me to say this, but we have far more than our fair share in the UK!
Sadly there's far too much of a 'If I can't do it, then no one can. So nobody else should be able to succeed' attitude in this part of the world.
"There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
That “cannot be done,” and you’ll do it."
Edgar Guest
There are thousands to prophesy failure,
There are thousands to point out to you one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
That “cannot be done,” and you’ll do it."
Edgar Guest
howa243
Well-Known Member
As far as I can see most people who have made comments that could be seen as negative have done so with the benefit of experience, not just knocking. Yes there is a lot of negativity on this site now but I do think in large measure this thread has pointed out the high costs. Certainly I would imagine vandigo who posted early on had asked the question before he started his venture. But having done so his experience should be taken notice of by anybody wanting to do the same thing. What is the point in asking a question if all you want is people saying what a cracking idea it is.
Last edited:
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
Lets be honest, you need 30k to start up a medium operation that won't pay positive return for at least 2 years and that's if you're renting. To buy land you need a massive investment for the land but then the start up costs on top of that. No problem if you have a cool million to play with and keep you going til you get a return (unless it's a hobby farm and you don't care)
Sure the business can work but there's a threshold of investment for stock you must cross or you simply don't have enough deer to make a profit. Forget the land, structures, fixtures and fittings for a moment. If you cleared 100 young red deer (year 2) for culling at 50kg larder weight because you're prepping too before transfer you'd expect say £5 kilo (generous). So that's 5,000kg @ £5 (£25,000). Now start taking off man hours, fuel, feed, interest on investment + loans etc etc and you see where this is going.
It's good to have dreams but the reality of business is a killer.
Sure the business can work but there's a threshold of investment for stock you must cross or you simply don't have enough deer to make a profit. Forget the land, structures, fixtures and fittings for a moment. If you cleared 100 young red deer (year 2) for culling at 50kg larder weight because you're prepping too before transfer you'd expect say £5 kilo (generous). So that's 5,000kg @ £5 (£25,000). Now start taking off man hours, fuel, feed, interest on investment + loans etc etc and you see where this is going.
It's good to have dreams but the reality of business is a killer.
Similar threads
