The people's republic of Scotland

[SL6.5]

The constant belittling of yes voters. Telling them they are dumb , too stupid. Etc , to make an informed vote is whats firing the yes vote

I agree that may be partly true. It is also true that the Better-together campaign keep coming away with such ridiculous remarks and so few, if any, valid ones in real justification of retaining the union that many undecided voters are actually being driven to vote Yes by Better-together. For instance, Mr Brown's latest intromission, effectively attempting to re-insert the "Devo-max" option, which he has neither the power nor any right to do (indeed can't and hasn't actually done, even though he claims otherwise) is yet another almighty gaff and it is in fact completely unacceptable of him to suggest a third option which was deliberately excluded from the referendum voting paper in the first place. In trying it on like this Broonie also shows utter contempt for the thousands of already cast postal votes, of people who had no knowledge of even the possibility of "Devo-max" being back on the options list, at the time they had to cast their votes. Scandalous conduct!. Running scared and doing it very wrong, that seems to be about it for the Better-together side. It does take a reasonable degree of intelligence to realise this. However, most Yes voters seem to have sufficient intellect to see through such shocking and insulting subterfuge.

 

[User00035]

The constant belittling of yes voters. Telling them they are dumb , too stupid. Etc , to make an informed vote is whats firing the yes vote

I don't think yes voters are being belittled, they interpret criticism of the SNP's position as a personal insult because they have convinced themselves to expect it. It is the opaque, deceitful case for independence put forward by Salmond and the spirit in which he is making it that people outside Scotland, and it must be said, half the population within it, are attacking.
I suspect if there was a poll in the rest of the UK the case for secession in principle would be supported. But our opinions won't be sought because as we are constantly reminded it is none of our business.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

listen, as far as guns go you might as well be voting to ban guns for private owners Macaskill is a nutter

Scottish Law Reporter: SNP plan as MacAskill demands Home Secretary transfers powers on gun ownership to Scottish Parliament

 

[private fraser]

The constant belittling of yes voters. Telling them they are dumb , too stupid. Etc , to make an informed vote is whats firing the yes vote

A Yes campaigner in Orkney yesterday was reported as saying "I can't understand the negativity of the No campaign."

Also reported yesterday .... £2 Billion was wiped off the value of Scottish companies.

 

[User00035]

I agree that may be partly true. It is also true that the Better-together campaign keep coming away with such ridiculous remarks and so few, if any, valid ones in real justification of retaining the union that many undecided voters are actually being driven to vote Yes by Better-together. For instance, Mr Brown's latest intromission, effectively attempting to re-insert the "Devo-max" option, which he has neither the power nor any right to do (indeed can't and hasn't actually done, even though he claims otherwise) is yet another almighty gaff and it is in fact completely unacceptable of him to suggest a third option which was deliberately excluded from the referendum voting paper in the first place. In trying it on like this Broonie also shows utter contempt for the thousands of already cast postal votes, of people who had no knowledge of even the possibility of "Devo-max" being back on the options list, at the time they had to cast their votes. Scandalous conduct!. Running scared and doing it very wrong, that seems to be about it for the Better-together side. It does take a reasonable degree of intelligence to realise this. However, most Yes voters seem to have sufficient intellect to see through such shocking and insulting subterfuge.

Correct. Brown also shows contempt for the rest of the UK population for making his devo-max bribe in their name without their permission or prior consultation. What you are seeing is not the UK or England scrabbling to save the Union. As I said above, I'm convinced a majority of English people, if anyone troubled to ask them, would be broadly in favour of the principle of Scottish secession, and I'm absolutely certain Wales and Northern Ireland would. What you are witnessing in Better Together is the Westminster and Scottish Labour party trying desperately to save its political skin. Please do not make the mistake of believing they speak for the rest of us.

 

[private fraser]

I agree that may be partly true. It is also true that the Better-together campaign keep coming away with such ridiculous remarks and so few, if any, valid ones in real justification of retaining the union that many undecided voters are actually being driven to vote Yes by Better-together. For instance, Mr Brown's latest intromission, effectively attempting to re-insert the "Devo-max" option, which he has neither the power nor any right to do (indeed can't and hasn't actually done, even though he claims otherwise) is yet another almighty gaff and it is in fact completely unacceptable of him to suggest a third option which was deliberately excluded from the referendum voting paper in the first place. In trying it on like this Broonie also shows utter contempt for the thousands of already cast postal votes, of people who had no knowledge of even the possibility of "Devo-max" being back on the options list, at the time they had to cast their votes. Scandalous conduct!. Running scared and doing it very wrong, that seems to be about it for the Better-together side. It does take a reasonable degree of intelligence to realise this. However, most Yes voters seem to have sufficient intellect to see through such shocking and insulting subterfuge.

Here's a valid and real reason to retain the Union...

That Nutter Salmond has Promised to demolish 3 large industries in Scotland.
Namely, Defence, Nuclear and Finance.
Throwing thousands of people out of a job and into a dole queue.

That's pretty damn simple and its a fact.

What other country would vote for a politician who promises stuff like that.

These folk call themselves Patriots and call others who oppose them, on the street and on film, traitors and Quislings.

It's Bizarre.

 

[private fraser]

The constant belittling of yes voters. Telling them they are dumb , too stupid. Etc , to make an informed vote is whats firing the yes vote

That Nutter Salmond has Promised to demolish 3 large industries in Scotland.
Namely, Defence, Nuclear and Finance.
Throwing thousands of people out of a job and into a dole queue.

That's pretty damn simple and its a fact.

 

[private fraser]

The constant belittling of yes voters. Telling them they are dumb , too stupid. Etc , to make an informed vote is whats firing the yes vote

So a stalker / shooter is happy to give more power to a "justice" secretary who wants to licence airguns and severely restrict the number of firearms in private hands ???

 

[User00035]

A Yes campaigner in Orkney yesterday was reported as saying "I can't understand the negativity of the No campaign."

Brilliant. That's one for the front page of Private Eye.

 

[SL6.5]

Here's a valid and real reason to retain the Union...

That Nutter Salmond has Promised to demolish 3 large industries in Scotland.
Namely, Defence, Nuclear and Finance.
Throwing thousands of people out of a job and into a dole queue.

That's pretty damn simple and its a fact.

What other country would vote for a politician who promises stuff like that.

These folk call themselves Patriots and others who oppose them, on the street and on film, traitors and Quislings.

It's Bizarre.

Thatcherite policies, continued by the Tories and New Labour to this day, destroyed more than three industries in Scotland and continue to harm the remaining ones. That's why there is only one Tory M.P. with a Scottish seat and it is also why even Labour struggles in Scotland against the S.N.P. AND, is pretty much what lies behind this whole referendum. We are a different country and the Westminster administration has lost touch with us. Accordingly, we have lost interest in it.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

care to name them and compare those industries across the UK?

 

[private fraser]

Thatcherite policies, continued by the Tories and New Labour to this day, destroyed more than three industries in Scotland and continue to harm the remaining ones. That's why there is only one Tory M.P. with a Scottish seat and it is also why even Labour struggles in Scotland against the S.N.P. AND, is pretty much what lies behind this whole referendum. We are a different country and the Westminster administration has lost touch with us. Accordingly, we have lost interest in it.

Soooo, you Aren't happy that industries have been demolished in the past, but you Are happy that more industries Will be demolished in the (near) future ?

I have to say, you're not raising my opinion of the i.q. of Yes voters.

Stop living in the past and re-re-rehashing history.

We've got a future to think of here.

 

[SL6.5]

Soooo, you Aren't happy that industries have been demolished in the past, but you Are happy that more industries Will be demolished in the (near) future ?

I have to say, you're not raising my opinion of the i.q. of Yes voters.

The "Nuclear" Alex Salmond wants rid of is the presence of U.S. weaponry at Faslane, hardly an industry but definitely a hazard. How will the defence contractors "industry" be "demolished"? there is a whole world to market to if they so wish. Of course, that industry has largely been shut down already by Westminster but it will be good to see ship-building and aero-space work increase again after years of neglect and decline. As for "Finance" I can promise you, you are wrong. My family is in Banking and they are relishing the prospect of independence. Getting rid of the now State owned (millstone) companies, that were ruined by running amuck after de-regulation, will be no loss and the influx of new companies and expansion of existing, sound one's, whilst creating much disruption and fantastic opportunity will see Scotland prosper.

 

[SL6.5]

care to name them and compare those industries across the UK?

Coal, Steel, Ship-building, Car and vehicle manufacture, Agriculture, Fishing and Technology industries such as electronics and aero-space components, the list could also include glass-making, paper-making, aluminium production and textiles, even tyre manufacture and humble welly boot making, all seriously diminished in output and profitabilty or completely gone under the policies of Mrs Thatcher, Blair, et al, do you not know this?

 

[bogtrotter]

Thatcherite policies, continued by the Tories and New Labour to this day, destroyed more than three industries in Scotland and continue to harm the remaining ones. That's why there is only one Tory M.P. with a Scottish seat and it is also why even Labour struggles in Scotland against the S.N.P. AND, is pretty much what lies behind this whole referendum. We are a different country and the Westminster administration has lost touch with us. Accordingly, we have lost interest in it.

Its unfortunate that its come to this but that's the facts of it

Private Fraser mentions his daughter and son and law and yes I can see why they might feel uneasy, but they are not the typical voter who would vote yes.

He also mentions things like pensions and mortgages, again something which wont effect a lot of yes voters
a hell of a lot of Scotland's population are working on the minimum or little more than the minimum wage
they have never been able to earn enough to consider paying into a pension,unless they are lucky enough to a have a works pension scheme, how many at the bottom of the income ladder have that option.

Mortgages again the majority are in social housing, private lets, or in the countryside tied housing for them owning their own house can never be more than a pipe , the right to buy did give some in social housing the chance to own theirs, while fine for some , it was not right for many on a low income owning your own house may not be the best answer , we need much more affordable social housing.

Things that matter and are attractive to the yes voters , and they have been promised a living minimum wage to be linked to inflation, free prescriptions( which they already have) scraping of the bedroom tax
which effects a lot of people and I am not talking about the scroungers and shirkers here( and we have our fair share of them) but genuine hard working people who don't earn enough to make ends meet, and need to claim housing benefit, pensions where they will be allowed to retire at 65 not an ever increasing pension age forcing them to work until they drop dead as will happen with our present system, especially when you consider Scots have a shorter life span than their English counterparts.

These are some of the things that matter to a large majority of Scots and why they may be attracted to a yes vote.

Of course if you have a good job , no financial worries, a large house , a comfortable pension to look forward to, vote Tory then you are going to want to stay with the status quo

The SNP is promising a more equal society that looks after its least fortunate members, an admiral aim, can they keep that promise only time will tell, but its not hard to see why many are tempted.

 

[ELMER FUDD]

Probably without realising it you have shown the reason for the resentment by many Elmer. The use of the word English rather than British.


Personally I believe that Britain will be a much poorer place in many ways if the people of Scotland do decide to separate from the rest of the U.K. I like visiting Scotland and I like the majority of the people in Scotland, but it is their decision to make and not for anyone else to try and influence them. However I also believe if they should decide to become independent and separate from the rest of us then the break should be complete and absolute with no half measures or dallying about.

I agree,out is out, no more SMPs voting in Westminster. It might seem bad having Westminster having the final say on what goes on but would you really like someone like Salmond having the final say in everything and having his own way. I would even say that every vote should be registered so it is known who voted for what and when it all goes tits up and they try to flee to pastures green the YES voters would be made to live in what they have voted for and the NO voters allowed to move.

It would never happen but it should be you reap what you sow. I admire the Scottish people and doing my ancestry have found my own roots back in 1756 are based in Aberdeen and Fife and have researched a lot of history on Scotland and haven't they had one long battle. But that was all a long time ago and I hope they now vote with reality in their hearts and minds and do what is the right thing and vote for their and their family's long term future.

 

[private fraser]

The "Nuclear" Alex Salmond wants rid of is the presence of U.S. weaponry at Faslane, hardly an industry but definitely a hazard. How will the defence contractors "industry" be "demolished"? there is a whole world to market to if they so wish. Of course, that industry has largely been shut down already by Westminster but it will be good to see ship-building and aero-space work increase again after years of neglect and decline. As for "Finance" I can promise you, you are wrong. My family is in Banking and they are relishing the prospect of independence. Getting rid of the now State owned (millstone) companies, that were ruined by running amuck after de-regulation, will be no loss and the influx of new companies and expansion of existing, sound one's, whilst creating much disruption and fantastic opportunity will see Scotland prosper.

Salmond wants rid of Nuclear...that means,Faslane and All of its jobs including contractors and sub-contractors. It also means nuclear power stations and all the folk who work in them including contractors and sub-contractors.

Salmond will cripple the defence industry by removing, at a stroke, it's biggest customer...the U.K.
No country in it's right mind would allow it's defence capability to be built and to lie in the hands of another country. That applies to aerospace, avionics, radar and shipbuilding.
If it happens then the industries will need all the luck in the world sourcing new contracts against all the other contractors in other countries, France for example. They will leap upon it.
In the meantime and make no mistake about it, folk will be out of a job making us money and into a dole queue costing us money.
Like another poster previously, you are very cavalier with other peoples jobs.

As for finance, I know of no-one in the finance sector in Edinburgh who relishes anything about "independance".
Possibly the new financial sector will be in Peebles.

You still manage to avoid addressing the issues of cross border costs like postage carrier and courier.
Also... no comment on pensions, where the cross border eec pension rules Will apply with attendant costs.

Possibly the answer is the same answer given by just about all Yes folk....

Dinnae worry, it'll be ok

or

Dinnae be negative, or ah'll lamp ye

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Coal, Steel, Ship-building, Car and vehicle manufacture, Agriculture, Fishing and Technology industries such as electronics and aero-space components, the list could also include glass-making, paper-making, aluminium production and textiles, even tyre manufacture and humble welly boot making, all seriously diminished in output and profitabilty or completely gone under the policies of Mrs Thatcher, Blair, et al, do you not know this?

so clearly then you don't actually understand why these industries across the uk and not Just Scotland were either scaled back or failed. Industry has to make money and there must be demand. If your costs are higher to produce than imports can supply it's just a stupid economic situation and as for the car making industry which is mostly a joke anyway, if those cars were any good and were selling globally there would never have been a problem.

 

[tackb]

so clearly then you don't actually understand why these industries across the uk and not Just Scotland were either scaled back or failed. Industry has to make money and there must be demand. If your costs are higher to produce than imports can supply it's just a stupid economic situation and as for the car making industry which is mostly a joke anyway, if those cars were any good and were selling globally there would never have been a problem.

you forgot to mention about the unions nearly breaking this country and being responsible for the demise as well!

 

[private fraser]

Its unfortunate that its come to this but that's the facts of it

Private Fraser mentions his daughter and son and law and yes I can see why they might feel uneasy, but they are not the typical voter who would vote yes.

He also mentions things like pensions and mortgages, again something which wont effect a lot of yes voters
a hell of a lot of Scotland's population are working on the minimum or little more than the minimum wage
they have never been able to earn enough to consider paying into a pension,unless they are lucky enough to a have a works pension scheme, how many at the bottom of the income ladder have that option.

Mortgages again the majority are in social housing, private lets, or in the countryside tied housing for them owning their own house can never be more than a pipe , the right to buy did give some in social housing the chance to own theirs, while fine for some , it was not right for many on a low income owning your own house may not be the best answer , we need much more affordable social housing.

Things that matter and are attractive to the yes voters , and they have been promised a living minimum wage to be linked to inflation, free prescriptions( which they already have) scraping of the bedroom tax
which effects a lot of people and I am not talking about the scroungers and shirkers here( and we have our fair share of them) but genuine hard working people who don't earn enough to make ends meet, and need to claim housing benefit, pensions where they will be allowed to retire at 65 not an ever increasing pension age forcing them to work until they drop dead as will happen with our present system, especially when you consider Scots have a shorter life span than their English counterparts.

These are some of the things that matter to a large majority of Scots and why they may be attracted to a yes vote.

Of course if you have a good job , no financial worries, a large house , a comfortable pension to look forward to, vote Tory then you are going to want to stay with the status quo

The SNP is promising a more equal society that looks after its least fortunate members, an admiral aim, can they keep that promise only time will tell, but its not hard to see why many are tempted.

I remember the "brain drain" back in the day.
Looks like it's acceptable in the New Free Scotland that talented, clever, highly qualified folk go abroad, even more acceptable 'cos they are not typical Yes voters (???).
By the way, we are not silver spoon landed folks. As I mentioned before, I and all my family are from the Gorbals, we probably fit right into your vision of a "typical Yes voter".
We climbed the ladder.
Just who do you think is going to pay the high (and they Will be high) taxes in this new, fairer utopia that's been put into folks heads.

You reckon I vote Tory?....my my, how that would make my mum and dad laugh if they were still around.