The people's republic of Scotland

[murrayb]

If they go I think it will get messy, and with anything messy resentment will build. The English government will be bloody minded and make it difficult (Currency/Europe etc.) and the Scots will hate us for it. If it goes wrong in 20 years and they want to come back into the Union the English government will screw them - more resentment.

On the other hand, if there's a No vote I can see that going a bit pear shaped as well. If the Yes has run at 49% half the nation will be up in arms and it will not go away in a hurry. The "we've been robbed" camp will bang on until they get another crack at it.

Oh I see this getting messy alright. Don't forget the resentment within the UK in the event of a No vote and we have to start paying more and seeing more and more bribes and benefits heading up north. Scotland will get almost everything they want and keep the backing of the UK as a whole with more fiscal powers and anything else they want just to try to keep the union going.

The points about cross border pensions is interesting... That hasn't been brought up before in the south so I wonder why it's not being touted more? Is it possible that the powers that be are trying to keep that little bomb quiet incase people get a bit het up about it? I wonder what else is being kept on the back burner until as late as possible.

 

[private fraser]

Pensions....

This affects England & Wales as well,even though folk there don't get a say...

Daily question: What does the future hold for Scotland's pensioners? - BBC News

Apparently in Greece pre recession, a hairdresser could retire at 50 as they "handled chemicals"

Look how Greece turned out.

 

[Gazza]

There is one thing for sure. Come a yes vote, every politician/political party who are presently preaching doom and gloom, telling us how it wont work will all do a massive turn around and will be telling us how it can work and be the best country on Earth but only in their hands.

 

[Klenchblaize]

If they desire independence I say let them have it along with both advantage and disadvantage that the temperament of this fine peoples is well suited to cope with.

I quite like the thought of having to digout my Passport at Border Control and determine where I can get the best exchange rate deal. Even better if £1 gets me c1.5 dupondius!

Cheers

K

 

[SL6.5]

Here's another reeaaly straightforward hypothetical question for you SL6.5 (?)...

A guy turns up at your door.
He tells you he has a great Product, and that you should sign up for it.
He is unable to guarantee that it will work, indeed there are no guarantee's at all on the Product.
He is unable to tell you how much the Product will cost.
He doesn't tell you that there is no going back on the deal once you sign, but does admit this...when pressed. In other words...it's for life.
He either evades your questions or answers them by saying, "don't worry,we'll work that out as we go along, just sign here".

Do you...

a) Say "yeah that sounds great" and sign on the dotted line for the Product.
b) Say No thanks, and shut the door.
c) Say No thanks, shut the door and call the police in case he should con elderly or vulnerable people.

It's a really straightforward question, give it a go...just for fun .

I see your problem. Clearly, and entirely to the contrary of the situation outlined in your above scenario, NO-ONE turned up at anybody's door trying to flog anything. We, the guid folk o' Scotland, gave Mr Salmond his mandate by an overwhelming majority. We knew what he was about before we elected him and we approved. For his part Mr. Salmond has delivered us the chance that he said he hoped to deliver before we even elected him to power. He's done it. We chose that. Now we get to choose whether or not we remain part of the UK. It's that simple. No confidence trickery, no lies, no false promises. Just a crack at deciding either to become a fully self-determining nation in its own right or remain as an ever more divergent partner sitting at odds with a central government which was not given its mandate by the people of Scotland.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I see your problem. Clearly, and entirely to the contrary of the situation outlined in your above scenario, NO-ONE turned up at anybody's door trying to flog anything. We, the guid folk o' Scotland, gave Mr Salmond his mandate by an overwhelming majority. We knew what he was about before we elected him and we approved. For his part Mr. Salmond has delivered us the chance that he said he hoped to deliver before we even elected him to power. He's done it. We chose that. Now we get to choose whether or not we remain part of the UK. It's that simple. No confidence trickery, no lies, no false promises. Just a crack at deciding either to become a fully self-determining nation in its own right or remain as an ever more divergent partner sitting at odds with a central government which was not given its mandate by the people of Scotland.

you have no idea what you're talking about, every part of Salmond's plan have been about getting his pitch into your home, leaflets and free papers which are exclusively yes branded. TV and media in every way, he's been knocking on our doors and speaking in our homes selling his pish for a long time. Then his public speaking telling people they will get a better deal?? eh??? what is he god now and can see the future??

He has promised the un-promisable that only liars and salesmen do to get their commission. The economics of tomorrow can't be promised but every EVERY prominent ecomomist has said that what Salmond is spouting is far from reality.

Too many people believe the BS that salesmen pitch every day and that exactly what's happening here.

 

[private fraser]

" No confidence trickery, no lies, no false promises"

Really?...wow, sounds like you really believe that.

Oh well.

Salmonds whole agenda has changed since his party was elected, folk need to know what he/they stand for now and decide on That.

Salmond or his team have been turning up at doors for some time now so the above scenario still stands.

 

[SL6.5]

It said S.N.P. on the tin. We bought the tin. I think we're all hoping it does what it says on the tin. It certainly looks like it does too. How much more forthright could the situation be, on the Yes side?

 

[private fraser]

Personally I'm fed up with the independence debate and the constant 'Yes' or 'No' crap getting rammed down your throat every day. I've tried to stay away from the keyboard on this thread but...

The SNP are good for Scotland and it's interests as part of the union but that is as far as it goes. The politicians are mediocre at best, Salmond can show boat around Holyrood (when will that be paid off again) with the rest of the Mickey Mouse lot but the reality of it is they couldn't run an independent country.

Salmond promises everything to get the vote without actually explaining where the money will come from, he has no grasp on reality or interest in relation to defence, security for the country; as in the security service as the Police are in no way shape or form geared for this (Scotland will be a soft terrorist target or haven), what the tax rate will be (25% like Norway, no thanks) never mind currency.

If its oil and whisky he's getting the money from I'm all for everything north of Perth being independent from the central belt.... See how that one sits with him, after all I didn't want a tram system in Edinburgh but will have to pay for it ultimately. That said it wouldn't work as after all Wee Eck seems to know more about the oil industry than Sir Ian Wood when it suits him.

If there is a yes vote the money will run out and the borrowing will spiral, he won't be able to blame the Westminster bogey man then, not that the SNP have a chance of election in an independant country and he can argue "the SNP would have given you that" when the opposition can't deliver.

I don't want to live in constant austerity for the sake of independence so that my children's children may have a better life, I want to get by why I'm here and see my children enjoy what I can give them rather than what I could have given them.

Salmond/Sturgeon/McCaskill (insert as appropriate) accuse or belittle anyone who doesn't agree with them or when posed with questions that don't suit their answers, a bit like the yes voters who are too blinkered to see the wood for the trees.

I don't like any politicians particularly but the 'top three' SNP are complete muppets end of, the sooner this is over the better.

All spot on, he has it Exactly.

 

[private fraser]

It said S.N.P. on the tin. We bought the tin. I think we're all hoping it does what it says on the tin. It certainly looks like it does too. How much more forthright could the situation be, on the Yes side?

Because folk voted the snp into government doesn't necessarily mean they want independence.
That is a different issue and has yet to be decided.
Check what Mick9abf above and other posters have said on that.
Anyway, plenty of folk didn't vote for them, they still get their doors knocked, so the scenario still stands.
I certainly didn't "buy the tin"

"I think we're all hoping etc" you said in the above post.
You are deluding yourself.

The devil is in the detail and as the detail emerges, as far as the the Yes campaign allow it to emerge,it looks like a total leap into the unknown, as myself and a lot of other posters have pointed out.

Re "how much more forthright etc"....you are joking...right?

ps...this is called answering questions and addressing issues, give it a try sometime.

 

[private fraser]

There is one thing for sure. Come a yes vote, every politician/political party who are presently preaching doom and gloom, telling us how it wont work will all do a massive turn around and will be telling us how it can work and be the best country on Earth but only in their hands.

It's a Yes vote, negotiations are done, General Election in 2016... Labour come to power.
The nuclear subs etc. are told they can stay in Faslane so the snp folk get screwed on that.
A few years down the line Labour can't deliver the SNP's promises and there is austerity due to increased borrowing, foodbanks are on the rise due to high unemployment, postage and courier costs are up, interest rates are up and things are generally bad.

Who do you blame?...

You can't blame me I voted no.
You can't blame Westminster, not anymore.
You can't blame Scottish Labour they campaigned against independence.

As above

 

[private fraser]

BBC's Robert Peston, 1 hour ago, amid news that Standard Life, Lloyds and RBS shares are all down....

"You don't need telling, I know, that the longer the uncertainties persist, the more prolonged the UK will suffer from an elevated cost of finance, and the greater the harm there will be to economic growth - both sides of the border.
Or to put it another way, whatever the long term prospects for Scotland and the rest of the UK, both could pay a steep and immediate economic price, during the months and probably years it will take to firmly determine the distribution of assets north and south (and I haven't even got on to the further complications of determining how liabilities, such as the national debt , are shared)."



And we were just starting to climb out of the worst recession since the 1920's..........

The price of waking up "Free" on the 19th will be that everything is even more expensive than before, and will be for a Long time.

Just be sure you know what you're voting for.

ps... the £pound£ is at a ten month low on the markets.

 

[gerarddwatts]

What is astonishing is that numbers of normal intelligent people have fallen for the lies, uncosted fantasy, and delusion of eck and the accolytes. I just hope they vote with their brains and not their emotions.

 

[corky]

What is astonishing is that numbers of normal intelligent people have fallen for the lies, uncosted fantasy, and delusion of eck and the accolytes. I just hope they vote with their brains and not their emotions.

 

[Klenchblaize]

All jokes aside does not the Home Guard protest just a wee bit too much of late and in consequence signal nothing less than a Lowlander's self interest in the outcome??

K

 

[User00035]

OK, so whatever happens its going to be close which means the losing side is bound to feel disenfranchised. Unless the vote is yes and all doubts and bad feeling are swept aside by a brand new Scotland becoming a smooth running, prosperous shining success story over night, it is inevitable there will be ill-will rumbling on within Scottish society for generations. So what happens when Orkney and Shetland finally have enough of it and hold a referendum of heir own and call for a federal alliance with Norway taking the oil and gas fields with them (assuming Norway want oil and gas fields which are down to their last dregs, but we'll gloss over that for now)?
Has Mr Salmond planned for that or will he simply adapt to having someone else to hate, some other auld enemy around whose neck he can hang the national grievance for another lifetime?

 

[private fraser]

All jokes aside does not the Home Guard protest just a wee bit too much of late and in consequence signal nothing less than a Lowlander's self interest in the outcome??

K

Just trying to inform people, K.

A lot of folk don't seem to have a Scooby about what is happening and could happen.

That applies to both sides of the border,it's your economy too.

In Scooby-Doo it always turns out that the problem is a guy in a suit.
In our case,his name is Alex Salmond.

 

[Kalahari]

Just trying to inform people, K.

A lot of folk don't seem to have a Scooby about what is happening and could happen.

That applies to both sides of the border,it's your economy too.

In Scooby-Doo it always turns out that the problem is a guy in a suit.
In our case,his name is Alex Salmond.

Might be our economy too, but we are disenfranchised.

David.

 

[Wapinschaw]

.......The genie has been let out of the bottle with this vote. I'm not sure he's going to go back in again for a while.

This is perhaps my biggest fear. We are in uncharted waters here, but Nationalism and Socialism have torn apart many previously peaceful countries. There are idiots on both sides of the divide, however the reports do indicate that rather more vandalism and intimidation is coming from the Yes camp. As previously posted here, the tragic history of Ireland should be a warning of how quickly and badly things can spiral out of control. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Wapinschaw]

What is astonishing is that numbers of normal intelligent people have fallen for the lies, uncosted fantasy, and delusion of eck and the accolytes. I just hope they vote with their brains and not their emotions.

Summarised in two short sentences. Thank you.