The people's republic of Scotland

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The ROI might not have wanted to rejoin the union after the 2008 crash, and who would expect them to? It's a sovereign nation and has been for nigh on 100 years. I wonder how many of the Irish are quite as keen on being increasingly integrated into the increasingly overarching and dicatorial United Sates of Europe aka the EC, often in the face of 'No' votes in plebiscites against ratifying treaties. Are they as keen as they once were on Eurozone membership and that wonderful invention the single currency? What happens if (many say 'when') the Euro finally collapses and potentially blights some of its members, especially small ones like the ROI, for a generation? Alex Salmond says he'll take an independent Scotland into separate EC membership, and whether he likes it or not that means joining the single currency.

What is fascinating about the southern Irish, is that at a time when many Scots have become increasingly critical of the UK, relations between the UK and ROI have never been so close politically, culturally, in business, and financially and continue to become closer. Who knows? If the EC collapses under the weight of its inbuilt contradictions, idiocy, and growing nationalism amongst its member states, the Brits and the Irish may well set about creating a loose informal union with lots of joint ventures and policies while retaining separate governments and institutions.

What you're describing is a federal alliance. A friendly club of strictly sovereign states co-operating to their mutual advantage on a few key areas where they have a common interest without pooling sovereignty or entering monetary union. In my view it would be entirely beneficial if the UK was replaced by such an arrangement. The EU is often sold falsely as a wayward version of a federation when in truth it was never intended to be anything other than an artificial single-state super-power controlled by anti-democratic central bureaucracy. Europe will never succeed as a federation. Its nations are too numerous, too disparate culturally, politically and economically and have too many conflicting interests. England, Scotland , Wales and Ireland on the other hand, are the perfect candidates. Culturally and historically we are siblings. The United Kingdom is a settlement we have outgrown. We would be happier, healthier and enjoy more harmonious relations if we separated but retained the family ties. Those nations which have a deep historic attachment to the crown could retain that constitutional tradition without compromising their political sovereignty - Australia and Canada manage well enough.
A modern, grown-up federal alliance of formerly conjoined nations would set a thoroughly sound example to our European neighbours and the wider world. I support the concept of Scottish secession for this reason and in this spirit and I deplore the hand-wringing Westminster elite which clings to the past like a child clings to its mother's skirts. But at the same time I am against Salmond and the SNP because his garbled, half-formed vision of independence in which he has encouraged antagonism and grievance to advance his ambitions is set to propel Scotland and the other nations of the British Isles is entirely the opposite direction.
 
Nothing wrong wi free speach and when he started his 100 town tour he was only speaking and enguaging with folk not shouting and balling out a loud hailer.
My suggestion is dinae walk up and down high streets with loud hailers preaching ur views, it would not matter wot his views were he was always going to attract negative attention. Not the brightest thing to do.
I watched his video clips of this alleged anti-english feeling but he was not helping it any and in some cases stirring it up for the camera's. And a lot of the abuse was over the Iraq war

Down my way folk are just sick to death wth it all, no extra ill feeling to anyone. A lot of it will be made up /exagerated for the tabloids.

Ps Do u think many people in Eire would vote to join the UK again or anytime in the past 90-100 years? Even when they went t*ts up u didnae see them begging to join the union again.
There is life without the union, it may not be easy or even better but atleast scotland wil be looking after itself first

"Do u think many people in Eire would vote to join the UK again or anytime in the past 90-100 years?"

I don't know anyone in Eire to ask.

"Even when they went t*ts up u didnae see them begging to join the union again."

True, but I have no doubt that they would have loved to have access to the Bank of England's resources to extract them from the crap.

"There is life without the union, it may not be easy or even better but atleast scotland wil be looking after itself first"

I think what you probably mean is: "There is life without the union, it may not be easy or even better but atleast Scotland's politicians wil be looking after themselves first"

"it may not be easy or even better"

So why incur huge expenses and disruption if it is not going to "improve" our situation?
 
"it may not be easy or even better"

So why incur huge expenses and disruption if it is not going to "improve" our situation?

That's my problem with the whole thing. What is so bad about what we have now? Are we treated so badly? We're hardly oppressed. I just don't see the point in spending all of that money to separate and be marginally better off in 25 years time. Just so that we can say the English don't rule us anymore. (I'm assuming that we won't mention that we're now ruled by the EU instead)


If the SNP et al really cared about things like food banks, then they would address the social problems that we have in Scotland that necessitate them. They have that power already.
 
Don't know if this has been covered, but I read an article in Friday's Times noting that there is a concentration of Labour MPs in Scotland which has had a disproportionate influence on general elections over recent decades. Without this factor, the Tories could have feasibly been in power from 1951 to 1997.
Whatever one's political affinity, this illustrates that independence for Scotland could exert a lasting fundamental change over the entire UK.
 
Don't know if this has been covered, but I read an article in Friday's Times noting that there is a concentration of Labour MPs in Scotland which has had a disproportionate influence on general elections over recent decades. Without this factor, the Tories could have feasibly been in power from 1951 to 1997.
Whatever one's political affinity, this illustrates that independence for Scotland could exert a lasting fundamental change over the entire UK.

And would that not be why Mr Darling and Mr Miliband are the ones who keep trying to tell us how good the union has been for the whole country and maybe also why it was the Tories that allowed us this referendum in the first place. Scotland's a Tory desert. England and the rest would be easier to win enough Tory seats in and to form Tory Governments in without Scotland always giving Labour a good start.
 
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Don't know if this has been covered, but I read an article in Friday's Times noting that there is a concentration of Labour MPs in Scotland which has had a disproportionate influence on general elections over recent decades. Without this factor, the Tories could have feasibly been in power from 1951 to 1997.
Whatever one's political affinity, this illustrates that independence for Scotland could exert a lasting fundamental change over the entire UK.


Are u sure that is right??
I also thought that would have been the case but I have read else where thst there has only been 2 occasions when the scottish labour MP's were needed to make a government, yes it will have made it massively stronger and a bigger marign but most were won on the rUK mp's alone.
There is no doubt that t will make it a lot harder without that bank of scottish labour MP's.
 
You say nothing wrong with free speech then you go on to maintain that it needs to stay within certain quite limited parameters, one being dinnae upset people who disagree wi' ye and don't attract attention.
Hmmm, a somewhat limited interpretation of free speech I would say.

All the guy (Jim Murphy) had was two Irn Bru crates, a can of Irn Bru and a loudhailer, yet the Yes campaingers saw him as a threat to their "cause", mobbed him and assaulted him, not allowing passers by to engage at all.

Free speech and democracy...I don't think so.

I put some questions up for the Yes folk to answer waaaay back on page 19.
Still nothing.

The Yes politicians are unable or unwilling to answer those same questions yet folk seem happy to vote for them.

Go figure.


Living in west lothain i'm sure u ken exactly wot it's like but standing up shouting esp on a loud hailer no matter wot ur shouting (unless advertising cheap bevy or 1/2 price lap dances) is only going to get some bam's attention. If he was a yes campignier i'm equally sure it would not have taken that long to get abused either
Yes he should be allowed to do it, but surely he should show a bit of common sense too, he played up the situation and didn't try to defuse it for the media attention and to score points.

Not entirely sure wot questions u asked waaay back but i'd imagine the answers are that no body actuallly knows, and how can they. So much has to be decided IF the yes vote comes in.
The 2 biggest set in stone pledges, No sharing the pound and No nukes/trident. Do u really honestly believe if 'wee king eck' or 'team scotland' goes in there and says swap u nukes for the pound cameron will not bite his hand off. Expensive and complicated as it may be to set up a new currency it will be a dam site easier than creating a new deep water harbour unless westminster knows of any up and coming ice ages or plate tetonic movements happening soon.
And on currancy both Iceland and Faroes share the Norways krona but all 3 notes have different exchange rates, so it can be done.

This whole debate/thread is just typical of the whole referendum sh**e u have 2 sides (esp the diehards on each side) spouting equal ammount of BS in the most arrogant way possible putting of more voters, but both claiming there BS smells of roses.
How is ur average working man on the street meant to make a proper decision?? ! report comes out 1 day by a well repected bunch of academics/business's/oil companies followed by a report the next day rubbishing it by an equally important sounding team of experts.
There as corrupt as the bloody politicains in the first place, but atleast we will on;y have 1 set of schemeing lying bas***d politicians instead of the 3 we currently pay for

Both sides have there pro's and con's and everyone is entitled to make there own decision but its the way some of 1 side put the other down just does my heid in
I was undeceided for quite a while but now just going for it, Scotland has the chance to govern itself and we shold take it, it could cost me a bit of cash as i'm selling my house/remortgaing etc so have a bit to lose but the bottom line is scotland should be independent. There are plenty of smaller countries that survive just fine, no reason we can't either

Ps Finch do u not fancy taking 'king ecks' role u talk a lot more sense than him
 
That's only if he stays in power!
Once independence is decided there will be another vote to decide who will be the governing party.
The first vote is only for independence and Eck's party is the interim government until the next vote.
The next government is the one who needs to decide exactly how the independent Scotland is governed, raises taxes, what fighting forces are required, etc, etc.


My questions are:- given that Westminster keeps saying the Scots get more in subsidies and benefits than we give in taxes why are they so keen to keep us together?
What have we Scots got that they are so keen to keep a hold of?


I'm also not enthused by the thought of Boris Johnson being a future Prime Minister which looks very possible.


Ed

It is not what you Jocks have, it is what at the moment Camerons mates have,Land meaning all the estates that his mates own at the moment, which, in a third world bankrupt country will be worthless.Especially when The Lying Scotsman(Salmond) bans hunting and shooting.
 
I have to agree with all of the above.


Especially the last paragraph.



An interesting read from Brian Wilson

Brian Wilson: Border costs post-independence - The Scotsman



Why so many unanswered question ?


Because there are no answers!



Steve.

Countryboy...

It's not just me that's asking questions and not getting answers, check the above link...please.

A Yes man was asked a simple question, he gave an incorrect answer.
Let's be charitable and say he just gave an incorrect answer, not a lie.
I could go on about the article but I won't, just please read it and take it in.

Now.
Here is a simple straightforward question which I would be grateful if you would answer for me....

You are buying a house and it's a huge commitment, you don't have a solicitor, you are doing it yourself.
The seller of the house gave what You Know to be an incorrect answer to one of your questions.
The seller is unable to answer your other questions, he just say's "don't worry, that will be ok, just sign here"

Here's the question......

Do you sign on the dotted line ?????.

If so, why ??? (ffs :))

The whole of the above scenario is just the same as this referendum.

Atb

fraser

ps... Any other Yes voter, feel free to answer the same question.....please.
 
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It is not what you Jocks have, it is what at the moment Camerons mates have,Land meaning all the estates that his mates own at the moment, which, in a third world bankrupt country will be worthless.Especially when The Lying Scotsman(Salmond) bans hunting and shooting.

Eh? Are you claiming we're really just a third world country, if it wasn't for us being owned and sponsored by Englishmen? Do you secretly work for the Yes! campaign?
 
Ps Finch do u not fancy taking 'king ecks' role u talk a lot more sense than him

Thanks for the vote of confidence CB but I don't think an Englishman, and one of Saxon rather Nordic ancestry is going to win SNP supporters over. I could see myself receiving some sort of Wee Harvey McOswald treatment, so I'll pass on that if you don't mind.
Best of luck whatever happens.

Edit: Just been reading about Bruce Ogilvie and Siol nan Gaidheal. Sounds like a man with all the combined charm of Jerry Adams and Nick Griffin and a close buddy of Salmond. Just what Scotland needs, a new brand of Celtic left-wing fascism.
 
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Cameron now offering Scottish government more powers if a no vote sounds like a case of brown trousers for David :scared:
 
They are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Latest is the Queen will not be happy if we get a yes vote. Lets not upset the Queen. In reality she will be moving up here with the Duke and more than welcome they will be. lol
 
Scraping the bottom of the barrel is what the Yes campaign did when they went into benefits land areas where most folk have probably never voted in-their-lives, made them loads of promises and put them on the streets.
Wait till those folk don't get the promises delivered in the new Free Scotland should it come to pass.
That'll be worth watching.

If Salmond thought he could get away with it,he would empty the jails as long as they promised to vote Yes.

ps... still no takers on the above perfectly simple question.
Come on you Yes folk...dinnae be feart. :)
 
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"Undecided" voters?...hmmm maybe they're the ones too intimidated and frightened to say what they are going to vote...like No.

Funny enough Salmond was being interviewed this morning and the reporter told him that every person they interviewed on the street and who was undecided said they would probably vote no but would not make their choice public
 
Funny enough Salmond was being interviewed this morning and the reporter told him that every person they interviewed on the street and who was undecided said they would probably vote no but would not make their choice public

Didn't see that...was out after pigeons on the stubble before the plough gets going.
 
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