The people's republic of Scotland
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For the record, Gordon Brown was not foolishly guided by the bank of England. In fact he hobbled the BoE by creating his "tripartite" regulation system. It looked good to the unschooled voter - financial regulation to be policed by three bodies, the BoE, the FSA and the Treasury with the requirement of unanimity between these bodies to ensure effective action could be taken against financial institutions whose activities gave cause for concern. But this effectively conferred the final authority to act on the Treasury, namely Brown himself. He was warned privately about activities within Northern Rock and RBS by the BoE which sought his authority to issue formal warnings but Brown chose to do nothing. His henchmen, notable Ed Balls, made little secret of the fact that Brown had set out to suppress the cost of borrowing and encourage a huge expansion of personal and commercial debt to create the illusion of prosperity so he could get away with expanding the tax pool and transferring as much of the economy to the public sector as he could without the electorate noticing. (Balls was jubilant in one session of Prime Ministers questions about the levels of State dependency that had been "achieved" in certain parts of the country - including Scotland - and the amount of public and private debt amassed as a consequence.)
Against the advise of the Governor of the BoE Brown spread the banking contagion rather than allowing failed businesses to be wound down, even allegedly hinting to the chairman of Lloyds TSB Victor Blank (now Sir Victor) at a drinks party that there might be something in the honours list if Lloyds could see its way to bailing out HBOS whose collapse on top of the RBS debacle threatened Labour's Scottish voter base.
This was the same Brown who, as an unelected Prime Minister, tried to claim the credit for "saving" banks whose disastrous activities he had spent eleven years as Chancellor in a predominantly Scottish Government assiduously encouraging.
There was certainly a fool at work in the management of Britain's economy and the regulation of the financial sector but it wasn't the BoE.
Interesting site which has a lot of answers
Scottish Independence | The FactCheck Blog | The FactCheck Blog
Scottish Independence | The FactCheck Blog | The FactCheck Blog
Wapinschaw
Well-Known Member
W Where are we seeing the ugly side to nationalism???
I've not seen any, yes a bloke got egged in the high st big deal. If he thought it was a good idea to hang out in kirkady high st outside a bookies and a couple of pubs with a loud hailer espressing/preaching his views. I'm surprised he only got egged. It would not matter wot his views were there was only going to be 1 outcome.
He's not the first and won't be the last politicain to be egged
I watched the video of the 'alleged' organised hatered but most of it seemed to be about the Iraq war, and i think he never helped to calm the situations down any. When he started his campign he was simply speaking to folk up the high st by end of it he was preaching to folk throu a loud hailer, always going to end in tears althou makes good headlines for newspapers. But u dinae really need to look that far on any scottish high st to find a numpty that would pick a fight with his shadow
U mention nationalism spiralled out of control in Ireland??
Depending what ur actually talking about, but it is slightly more complicated (to say the least) due to religion in Ireland. Do u really think the petrol bombs and water cannons will come out if we don't get a yes vote.
Or after a no vote are u suggesting sending in the 'b specials' (or even black and tan's if u really go back) to kick a few doors in off the trouble makers??
not got a tounge in cheek smiley, but do think any reference to Ireland is a going a bit far.
Some pretty nasty stuff happened back in the day over there
"Where are we seeing the ugly side to nationalism???"
Try here for starters: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2745565/Savage-racism-turning-Scotland-no-zone-English.html
And then here: "I've not seen any, yes a bloke got egged in the high st big deal. If he thought it was a good idea to hang out in kirkady high st outside a bookies and a couple of pubs with a loud hailer espressing/preaching his views. I'm surprised he only got egged."
Do you understand "Free Speech??" Would expect those you support in politics to be able to stand on their soap box on any High Street in Scotland and express their views without being assaulted?
"U mention nationalism spiralled out of control in Ireland?? Depending what ur actually talking about, but it is slightly more complicated (to say the least) due to religion in Ireland." "...Some pretty nasty stuff happened back in the day over there..."
Where does nationalism end and religion begin? In the context of Ireland (or anywhere else for that matter) can anyone separate parochial bigotry, be it based on nationalism, or as is prevalent in some parts, support for one football team over another, from medieval superstition be it Protestant, Catholic, Islam, or any other mumbo jumbo dispensed by a privileged priesthood to a supplicant peasantry? At least it seems to have got through to you that a lot of people have died in very difficult circumstances on both sides of the Irish border for no reasons other than religion, nationalism or both. I do not want to see that in Scotland.
My family has roots in Scotland (first known family records are in Aberdeen, 1828) and although I grew up on Tyneside, I have lived, worked, paid taxes and supported local businesses in Scotland for 35+ of my 62 years and consider Aberdeenshire to be my home. I do not want to become a foreigner in my own country and do not want to be driven out by a bunch of fu**wit dreamers without any concept of economics, any understanding of where the money to pay their benefits comes from, and who appear to think that swapping a bunch of charlatans in Holyrood will be a better deal than a bunch of the same in Westminster.
The potential exists for the situation to get out of hand over the referendum and spill into violence. We must not take it lightly because there are idiots on both sides willing to fan the flames.
I don't want that to happen.
Wapinschaw
Well-Known Member
And your suggestion is...???
Still waiting.....perhaps a quote in the context it was written would be appropriate...???
Suggestion is we have our own government making decisions that are in Scotland's interests first ... Not London
I'm not anti English ... My wife English ....
I'm just fed up of decisions for "up here" being an afterthought
Politicians charlatans yes I agree but can't go thru life with negative attitude all the time!
Surely this is worth a go to see if it can't mean better for Scotland as a whole?
I'm not anti English ... My wife English ....
I'm just fed up of decisions for "up here" being an afterthought
Politicians charlatans yes I agree but can't go thru life with negative attitude all the time!
Surely this is worth a go to see if it can't mean better for Scotland as a whole?
waterford103
Well-Known Member
SNP are good at running councils but a country is a massive step too far .
I'll get my hat and coat and leave now
I'll get my hat and coat and leave now
waterford103
Well-Known Member
Will the moderators now close this thread before fisticuffs are threatened
No fisticuffs from me
I just wish the whole lot was done n dusted one way or another & maybe we can try to sort out the state that both Scotland & Rest of the union are in .
Don't get yer coat Waterford ...not needed yer shirts safe fae eggs from me
Id rather talk venison !
Paul
I just wish the whole lot was done n dusted one way or another & maybe we can try to sort out the state that both Scotland & Rest of the union are in .
Don't get yer coat Waterford ...not needed yer shirts safe fae eggs from me
Id rather talk venison !
Paul
Wapinschaw
Well-Known Member
"we have our own government making decisions"
Remind me: what is it all those highly paid people in Holyrood do?
"Surely this is worth a go to see if it can't mean better for Scotland as a whole?"
This, by which I assume you mean the referendum, is not a joke, nor is it something to try to see if it "is worth a go". It's for the long term: 50, 100, 200 years. It is the future of our country. If it turns to rat poo don't assume we will get back in to be bailed out of a sinking economy. Think about it long and hard before you mark that ballot paper.
Google.... "Scottish referendum intimidation" and see who is doing the vast majority of the intimidation.
Their leader has a history...
First Minister Alex Salmond 'could be banned' from Aberdeen council-run buildings - BBC News
It's not safe to have a No sticker or sign up.
Democracy in action.
Their leader has a history...
First Minister Alex Salmond 'could be banned' from Aberdeen council-run buildings - BBC News
It's not safe to have a No sticker or sign up.
Democracy in action.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong wi free speach and when he started his 100 town tour he was only speaking and enguaging with folk not shouting and balling out a loud hailer.
My suggestion is dinae walk up and down high streets with loud hailers preaching ur views, it would not matter wot his views were he was always going to attract negative attention. Not the brightest thing to do.
I watched his video clips of this alleged anti-english feeling but he was not helping it any and in some cases stirring it up for the camera's. And a lot of the abuse was over the Iraq war
Down my way folk are just sick to death wth it all, no extra ill feeling to anyone. A lot of it will be made up /exagerated for the tabloids.
Ps Do u think many people in Eire would vote to join the UK again or anytime in the past 90-100 years? Even when they went t*ts up u didnae see them begging to join the union again.
There is life without the union, it may not be easy or even better but atleast scotland wil be looking after itself first
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The separate relationships between the ROI and Scotland with the rest of the UK do not make for a good or reasonable comparison. England took Ireland by military conquest, treated its inhabitants disgracefully, forced a foreign landed gentry and legal system on them, and imported scores of thousands of settlers (Scots as it happens) of a different religion taking the best land off the indiginous population. The result was centuries of dissent, armed conflict, the creation of two tribes with very different histories and cultures in one small country and ultimately secession and the splitting of one small country into two parts, one of which saw terrorist activity by separatists for decades. Even now, 'the troubles' officially over, the tribes live very uneasily together in some parts of Northern Ireland and there has been near ethnic cleansing in parts of some cities.
Scotland entered freely into a union of kingdoms in 1707 - no invasion. None of the Irish horrors, no miltary backed and judicially enforced tyranny. Sure the Jacobites tried to unpick the union by invasion and violence supported by a foreign power and failed totally, probably because they never had anything like popular support even amongst the poorest Scots.
The ROI might not have wanted to rejoin the union after the 2008 crash, and who would expect them to? It's a sovereign nation and has been for nigh on 100 years. I wonder how many of the Irish are quite as keen on being increasingly integrated into the increasingly overarching and dicatorial United Sates of Europe aka the EC, often in the face of 'No' votes in plebiscites against ratifying treaties. Are they as keen as they once were on Eurozone membership and that wonderful invention the single currency? What happens if (many say 'when') the Euro finally collapses and potentially blights some of its members, especially small ones like the ROI, for a generation? Alex Salmond says he'll take an independent Scotland into separate EC membership, and whether he likes it or not that means joining the single currency.
What is fascinating about the southern Irish, is that at a time when many Scots have become increasingly critical of the UK, relations between the UK and ROI have never been so close politically, culturally, in business, and financially and continue to become closer. Who knows? If the EC collapses under the weight of its inbuilt contradictions, idiocy, and growing nationalism amongst its member states, the Brits and the Irish may well set about creating a loose informal union with lots of joint ventures and policies while retaining separate governments and institutions.
and why would you consider that advantageous....??? (intrigued)
phitt
Well-Known Member
Apparently not. There's a few rabbits exiting the hat now. How many more have they hidden in there?
You say nothing wrong with free speech then you go on to maintain that it needs to stay within certain quite limited parameters, one being dinnae upset people who disagree wi' ye and don't attract attention.
Hmmm, a somewhat limited interpretation of free speech I would say.
All the guy (Jim Murphy) had was two Irn Bru crates, a can of Irn Bru and a loudhailer, yet the Yes campaingers saw him as a threat to their "cause", mobbed him and assaulted him, not allowing passers by to engage at all.
Free speech and democracy...I don't think so.
I put some questions up for the Yes folk to answer waaaay back on page 19.
Still nothing.
The Yes politicians are unable or unwilling to answer those same questions yet folk seem happy to vote for them.
Go figure.
SL6.5
Well-Known Member
A fully funded, wholly Scots owned Bank (a rare beast just to meet either of those two qualifications, let alone meeting both of them) The Airdrie Savings Bank never needed any bail out because, unlike the "clever" banks, it never got into any difficulties and if you do the research you might/should find it quite interesting just what's going on with this Bank right now. It's a actually quite a unique operation and it's going up in the world.
SL6.5
Well-Known Member
It's quite hard work wheel-barrowing the Jakies from the Cowgate a' the way up the Crags though.
An noo the Cowgate hotels have shut and the hoors have opened shop there's just no sae mony chances aither.- Status
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