rick6point5
Well-Known Member
Now theres a selling point....'shoots 3+MOA straight out of the box...anyone have a +3MOA rifle they regularly shoot with?
Field Accuracy
- Thread starter Yoda
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No, it's what you use to cut the grass.
rick6point5
Well-Known Member
Dinornis Giganteus
welshwarrior
Well-Known Member
Being able to shoot accurately in the field is a skill in its own right.
For me making a highly accurate rifle is a hobby in its own right, and a new one of hand loading came out of this.
It surprises me how many people struggle to pass the dsc1 shoot until I thought back 20 plus years when I was taught to shoot accurately, these basics with a 22 martini action stood me in good stead and continued to grow until I reached my peak in the late 90s.
A 1/4 MOA rifle gives me confidence when shooting be it steel plates rabbits deer or foxes, my common sense keeps the ranges sensible.
For me making a highly accurate rifle is a hobby in its own right, and a new one of hand loading came out of this.
It surprises me how many people struggle to pass the dsc1 shoot until I thought back 20 plus years when I was taught to shoot accurately, these basics with a 22 martini action stood me in good stead and continued to grow until I reached my peak in the late 90s.
A 1/4 MOA rifle gives me confidence when shooting be it steel plates rabbits deer or foxes, my common sense keeps the ranges sensible.
I used 3 MOA in my example because that is the number which several of us have used in other comments.
I have shot rifles which were no better than 3 MOA, such as the SKS and AK-47. They make a pretty effective 50 yard deer rifle, though.
My original use of 3 MOA was because most hunters I see cannot shoot 3 MOA offhand, no matter how accurate a rifle they have. My opinion is that, until you can hold 1 MOA from some field position without a rest, you are unable to benefit much from a rifle which is capable of 1/2 MOA.... and you need to try to keep shots within 150 yards or less. That is just a true for a 40-year-old man as it is for a 10-year-old boy.
It puzzles me a bit, because three rounds are more of a coincidence than a group.
As to the meaning in the field of a tight group, I find that confidence is improved by knowing that under ideal circumstances five (or more) shots will fall inside 1" at 100yds.
Why so? I suppose because with the best will in the world, all of us might need a quck second shot at some time in our lives; and of course one might have the chance to take a whole magazine-full of hinds in rapid succession
ONE three shot group is a coincidence. Ten consecutive three shot groups is not. I shoot three shot groups from light barreled sporters but I shoot ten or twelve of them to prove the load, not just one wallet queen to show off when at the local gun shop. Once this is done, I stop shooting for group and shoot only off-hand until the end of the deer season. Around here, any deer that allows you more than two shots is either stuffed or staked down.
~MuirYou have lead a sheltered life. You obviously have never hunted with an iron-sighted (open sighted) rifle. Most 30-30 Winchester Lever guns will shoot 2MOA but few can utilize the issue sights for better than 3 moa. Many muzzle loading rifles are very accurate but few people can shoot them into much better than 3 MOA. I have revolvers that will shoot 3MOA and better but an 8" circle at 100 yards is about my kill zone off hand.
The fact is that up until the advent of widely available, inexpensive scopes, most game was killed with guns that were for all practical purposes, 3 MOA guns. Some of you guys need to climb down off that tall horse you're riding.
~Muir
Some of you guys need to climb down off that tall horse you're riding.
I'm hoping to see some rooms newly vacated in Ivory Towers as well
I'm hoping to see some rooms newly vacated in Ivory Towers as well
~MuirHaving shot with Andrew Venables on a number of occasions I've developed the understanding that his general view is that if you can't hit what you're aiming at first time all that "wallet queen" grouping will count for nowt. Which I think is a fair comment. Knowing your rifle groups well and having it zeroed properly and ready to go are not synonymous. I suspect a straw test of shooters will show that a high number can indeed achieve sub moa but a high number won't put that sub moa group near the point of aim and have a plethora of excuses - different ammo, remounted the scope, cleaned it, didn't clean it, zero'd for 200yds or 1" high at 100yds, it's cold, it's hot, I usually use a bipod (or don't) ....
I used a rifle in which I had no confidence once in the field, against my better judgement.
Thankfully it resulted in a clean miss and a dented ego, but I learnt from it.
P.S. Muir, the tall horse is called European engineering and the Ivory towers are in fact made of German glass.
I used a rifle in which I had no confidence once in the field, against my better judgement.
Thankfully it resulted in a clean miss and a dented ego, but I learnt from it.
P.S. Muir, the tall horse is called European engineering and the Ivory towers are in fact made of German glass.
P.S. Muir, the tall horse is called European engineering and the Ivory towers are in fact made of German glass.
Roger that!
I also agree with what you wrote about having a zero and the skill to use it. My girl friend and I went to the range on the eve of season opener and the last minute shooters were out getting their zero using Caldwell "Lead Sled" rests and the like. During a cease fire I walked down to the 100M mark and put up a life-sized deer target. When I got back my lady friend pulled out her rifle and was immediately besieged with kind offers to use a rest. When she declined, saying she was just going to shoot standing, a murmur went through the guys on the firing line and better than half of them packed up and went home. I'm thinking they didn't want to be shown up by a ranch girl! To a greater point, in all likelihood, none of these guys had any skill with their rifles but for what was enhanced by a solid rest. I don't understand it. Like your friend, I zero the rifle and shoot in field conditions which for me, is standing. I abandon the bags once load testing is done. ~Muir
tackb
Well-Known Member
I practice all positions, but always get in to the most stable position the terrain allows when shooting game , prone on the hill usually , could be anything when woodland stalking !
the basic and first skill we all learn when shooting precision weapons is grouping , it does none of us any harm to practice this fundamental skill.
the basic and first skill we all learn when shooting precision weapons is grouping , it does none of us any harm to practice this fundamental skill.
Agreed, recognising it is a fundamental to be built upon.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
You have lead a sheltered life. You obviously have never hunted with an iron-sighted (open sighted) rifle. Most 30-30 Winchester Lever guns will shoot 2MOA but few can utilize the issue sights for better than 3 moa. Many muzzle loading rifles are very accurate but few people can shoot them into much better than 3 MOA. I have revolvers that will shoot 3MOA and better but an 8" circle at 100 yards is about my kill zone off hand.
The fact is that up until the advent of widely available, inexpensive scopes, most game was killed with guns that were for all practical purposes, 3 MOA guns. Some of you guys need to climb down off that tall horse you're riding.
Ah.... but that is a 3 MOA shooter, not a 3 MOA rifle
Plenty 3 MOA shooters out there, and I for one have been one of them on occasion, including with some open sighted rifles.
(shot a nice 303 a few weeks back)
Off hand tests the shooter not the rifle though doesn't it?
don't have any reference on the 30-30 but this chap seems to be pretty handy with one! he has several videos out to 400-500yds
this one is a 6x7" target at 300yds
Many Marlin .30-30s are capable of 1 MOA or better with a 150-gr FN hunting bullet, and they are not much behind the .303 Enfield in velocity. The trajectory is more loopy than modern bolt action high velocity shooters are accustomed, but a good shot can figure that out.
I think the point Muir is making is that there are 2 MOA and 3 MOA rifles out there, but a good shot can get every bit out of them for hunting out to 150 and 200 yards, because he his not going to add any slop to the shot.
I think the point Muir is making is that there are 2 MOA and 3 MOA rifles out there, but a good shot can get every bit out of them for hunting out to 150 and 200 yards, because he his not going to add any slop to the shot.
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