Venison Shortage reported by major gamedealers.

I see very few fallow coming out of the woods onto pasture and arable this doe season day or night. I've also heard from many stalkers/landowners in Hants and Sussex to say the same.

From my view, fawns were small this year and I think their dams weaned them early due to the drought. All of my does were dry this season, even early Nov.

All does have been very fat.

IMHO, the combination of weaning, flush of autumn vegetation, acorns/fruit has put them in such good condition that they aren't feeding anywhere near as widely.
Ditto - fallow I was shooting early season were stuffed full of acorns! Very fat does too but a distinct lack of animals about in general. We’ve had dead ash taken out of a large area of woodland & it’s altered the movement patterns of the fallow - they now prefer to hole up in a couple of areas where it is pretty much impossible to get to them without being spotted or winded 🤬
 
I agree with this and glad I’m not making it up in my head!
I saw this a lot last winter - deer only coming out in the dark.
What I also noticed was that when the temp dropped then thy were out earlier in the day.
This year there does seem to be an abundance of food so they aren’t having to look as hard for their daily fill (I am also shooting deer with a lot of fat on them) but I can see this changing as we move through Feb.
As for NV over glass, in Jan I pretty much used my 308 with NV exclusively (only one stalk done with a scoped rifle), but now I am reverting back to glass when conditions allow, ie it’s a clear evening.
Do I think that my using NV has pushed the deer to come out later ? No - they were doing it anyway.
 
irrespective of carcass value, the deer are not showing so much in legal hours this year. High amount of acorns holding them deep in the woods and it feels like it has not stopped raining in months so there normal places are waterlogged.

This is my personal thoughts. The use of digital scopes is pushing the deer to come out later and later. We have noticed a change in the deer movement pattern over the past few years.

I have cameras out and even places not heavily shot the deer are coming out later and going back into cover before light.

Is it the use of digital scopes? The weather ? Or in some places more foot fall of general public walking footpaths? Something is changing the movements.
Hardly surprising and totally predictable given all the use of night vision kit and 365 days a year shooting males. Deer are not stupid. Constant shooting just makes them harder and harder to find.

There was a very good reason for not shooting on Sundays, and for having seasons deer are protected. It allows them to rest and be undisturbed, so when you do come to shoot them they are easier to find.

I have also noticed deer that I have shot have much less fat on them than they used to. Probably another result of being constantly stressed.

Much much more productive in my view is to leave deer alone for as long as possible, and then hit them hard with many stalkers at the same time.
 
Hardly surprising and totally predictable given all the use of night vision kit and 365 days a year shooting males. Deer are not stupid. Constant shooting just makes them harder and harder to find.

There was a very good reason for not shooting on Sundays, and for having seasons deer are protected. It allows them to rest and be undisturbed, so when you do come to shoot them they are easier to find.

I have also noticed deer that I have shot have much less fat on them than they used to. Probably another result of being constantly stressed.

Much much more productive in my view is to leave deer alone for as long as possible, and then hit them hard with many stalkers at the same time.
They have no fat as your ground is poor you are further nth :doh: reds this end are fat as the ground is better and a bit walmer.
 
That doesnt hold water, night shooting of rabbits, hares, foxes, badgers, deer under license, ducks, geese, feral pigeons all legal.
Put like that, I agree with you - makes very little sense. We treat deer like they are a higher order of animal, vs so-called pest species. They all get my respect - even rats - but I would still shoot ALQ at night if allowed, but in proportion to the problem Im trying to solve, not just because I can. So you’re right - I withdraw my guess!
 
I saw this a lot last winter - deer only coming out in the dark.
What I also noticed was that when the temp dropped then thy were out earlier in the day.
This year there does seem to be an abundance of food so they aren’t having to look as hard for their daily fill (I am also shooting deer with a lot of fat on them) but I can see this changing as we move through Feb.
As for NV over glass, in Jan I pretty much used my 308 with NV exclusively (only one stalk done with a scoped rifle), but now I am reverting back to glass when conditions allow, ie it’s a clear evening.
Do I think that my using NV has pushed the deer to come out later ? No - they were doing it anyway.
I’ve been on nv constantly too. Agree that doesn’t make them nocturnal but they do seem to be nocturnal around my way. None in the fields really other than transiting between places, all in woodland margins which are just outside my perms.
Eating acorns I expect!
 
I am finding it bizarre these past few months (since the November/December cold snap really). There are just no Fallow where they usually are. I haven't even seen a fallow on my permissions (mixed woodland and open field) in months, they're just laying up in tiny bits of woodland where nobody shoots.

Regardless of the NV scope, I'm still only out in legal hours so that's not going to make the blindest bit of difference my end.

I'm hearing lots of others say they are also not seeing the deer.
 
Re pricing of deer paid for by dealers, a lot is to do with our retail market.

30 to 40 years ago local high street with local butchers dominated. Butchers sourced meat direct from farms and shoots, and it was all kept local with only the butcher in the supply chain to end consumer. Processing was wipe the back side and chop the meat up for customer and wrap it in butchers paper

Nowadays supermarkets dominate. And the price they pay wholesale is about half of retail price.

And the are huge numbers of steps in supply chain between the woods and supermarket shelf, with the product on the shelf being vastly different to how it came out of the woods - ie oven ready portions all sealed in lots of packaging. And it will have gone from game dealer to processor, to large distribution hub, to regional hub and then down to supermarket. And from the woods to the fork, it’s probably traveled several hundred miles.

And in every process someone is trying to make a profit.

What also doesn’t help are large supply contracts between the likes FLS and one game dealer at a very low fixed price per kg.

Another major challenge is the cost of waste disposal. Lead contamination means a lot of waste is now treated as hazardous waste, and as soon as words hazardous are used prices sky rocket.

Hopefully the removal of lead from ammunition will reset things as there should be no lead contamination going into the supply chain.

We are also seeing deer numbers collapsing in many places - not all, but many. With remaining deer being much harder to shoot. Hardly surprising when over the last few years there were massive culls with large numbers of deer ending up in pits as deemed worthless.
 
Anyone know what a game dealer sells a carcass at? (price wise)

i see broken down it is a massive increase on £ per kilo, just wondering how much the carcass price increases
Whilst this is from a few years back (2019), it sets the commercial side squarely in context. It's the reason why Mike set up the FSA-approved facility at Owl Barn Larder - I shot that syndicate for 3 years. With the onset of COVID, this was the genus of Deerbox.

Extract:

"You've got to think about it as a whole carcass," Robinson explains, ahead of portioning up our roe buck for the Woodsman. "If you bought a saddle of venison on the bone, you would pay £18 to £20 a kilo for it. Same as côte de boeuf. Buy it boned and its £24 a kilo. You buy a saddle of fallow deer that weighs 3kg, that will be at least £50. If you just took the meat from that, it would cost you £8 per portion. But, if you buy a whole, 30kg carcass from me at £7.50 a kilo, that will cost you £200. From that you will get 50 prime portions and 15 non-prime portions to make burgers or ragù with. At London prices you're talking £1,800 from a fallow deer carcass that cost you £200. Your average perportion cost is less than £3 – it's a no-brainer."
 

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I am finding it bizarre these past few months (since the November/December cold snap really). There are just no Fallow where they usually are. I haven't even seen a fallow on my permissions (mixed woodland and open field) in months, they're just laying up in tiny bits of woodland where nobody shoots.

Regardless of the NV scope, I'm still only out in legal hours so that's not going to make the blindest bit of difference my end.

I'm hearing lots of others say they are also not seeing the deer.
What is a big factor is game shoots who have deer with there cover strips and the last month of the shooting season they are shooting back to back days, then the keepers day beaters day grub round day and clear up day.
I have a new bit of ground with a shoot next door and some cover strips my side, last week they had not shot for 2 weeks I see deer managed one
went the other day as weather was good and learning the ground, asked the farmer had they shot? yes yesterday no fallow, just managed a muntjac buck on his 5 o'clock routine.
The game season is over so the disturbance of above will not be a factor and I expect in a week or two they will drift back,

He has rape, winter beans, winter wheat so they will be in the rape first winter wheat when it has green heads and last the beans. with none of that being affected by a game shoot. :tiphat:
 
Re pricing of deer paid for by dealers, a lot is to do with our retail market.

30 to 40 years ago local high street with local butchers dominated. Butchers sourced meat direct from farms and shoots, and it was all kept local with only the butcher in the supply chain to end consumer. Processing was wipe the back side and chop the meat up for customer and wrap it in butchers paper

Nowadays supermarkets dominate. And the price they pay wholesale is about half of retail price.

And the are huge numbers of steps in supply chain between the woods and supermarket shelf, with the product on the shelf being vastly different to how it came out of the woods - ie oven ready portions all sealed in lots of packaging. And it will have gone from game dealer to processor, to large distribution hub, to regional hub and then down to supermarket. And from the woods to the fork, it’s probably traveled several hundred miles.

And in every process someone is trying to make a profit.

What also doesn’t help are large supply contracts between the likes FLS and one game dealer at a very low fixed price per kg.

Another major challenge is the cost of waste disposal. Lead contamination means a lot of waste is now treated as hazardous waste, and as soon as words hazardous are used prices sky rocket.

Hopefully the removal of lead from ammunition will reset things as there should be no lead contamination going into the supply chain.

We are also seeing deer numbers collapsing in many places - not all, but many. With remaining deer being much harder to shoot. Hardly surprising when over the last few years there were massive culls with large numbers of deer ending up in pits as deemed worthless.
download (21).webp :rofl::coat::finger:
 
At current prices, you would have to shoot a lot of deer to make a living from purely selling venison. Even if you had enough deer on the ground to sustain this level of hunting, they would soon move off under that level of pressure. So deer managers need to make their living guiding paying stalkers to take trophies, cull stalking too, of course; this is how they make the bulk of their income. To do this they need to manage large areas of land, and we can't blame them, but they can only shoot so many deer a year. While this is the case, the supply of venison will never meet the demand, especially with some AGHE's demanding only deer head shot with copper.
The problem is that deer numbers are climbing, herds of Fallow in the south west are now numbered in the hundreds, high hundreds in some areas, Muntjac are spreading and multiplying faster than we can shoot them. The damage they are causing is evident to anyone that spends any time in the countryside. I fear that if we don't come up with an answer soon, the decision will be taken out of our hands and the Government (DEFRA) will implement a mandatory deer cull, which will end up with burning carcasses across the country.
This is my opinion and I could be wrong, I also don't know what the answer is, but the fact remains that we do not shoot enough deer and the damage they are causing will soon be irreversible.
 
I dont understand why we cant night shoot?
I cant see a logical reason
As a recreational stalker, I don't want to night shoot. I enjoy being out before first light waiting on that legal first hour. I'm not so keen on shooting at last light, but I do it to keep the deer numbers down.
 
At current prices, you would have to shoot a lot of deer to make a living from purely selling venison. Even if you had enough deer on the ground to sustain this level of hunting, they would soon move off under that level of pressure. So deer managers need to make their living guiding paying stalkers to take trophies, cull stalking too, of course; this is how they make the bulk of their income. To do this they need to manage large areas of land, and we can't blame them, but they can only shoot so many deer a year. While this is the case, the supply of venison will never meet the demand, especially with some AGHE's demanding only deer head shot with copper.
The problem is that deer numbers are climbing, herds of Fallow in the south west are now numbered in the hundreds, high hundreds in some areas, Muntjac are spreading and multiplying faster than we can shoot them. The damage they are causing is evident to anyone that spends any time in the countryside. I fear that if we don't come up with an answer soon, the decision will be taken out of our hands and the Government (DEFRA) will implement a mandatory deer cull, which will end up with burning carcasses across the country.
This is my opinion and I could be wrong, I also don't know what the answer is, but the fact remains that we do not shoot enough deer and the damage they are causing will soon be irreversible.
The large estates could as they don't run on a shoestring set the clients aside and concentrate on reducing the large volumes of deer,
"Closed for Refurbishment" Huge projects are shut for very long times then reopened.
Farms take the hit and do it all the time when crops fail "rape is a good example" with all that expense being absorbed, from what I read there are many who like to stalk/shoot deer but that will never make an impact, a chap I know would enjoy shooting a fallow buck and learn a lot from it but not a chance he would take it home and process it.
 
As a recreational stalker, I don't want to night shoot. I enjoy being out before first light waiting on that legal first hour. I'm not so keen on shooting at last light, but I do it to keep the deer numbers down.
I shoot deer in the last part of the day as I take on work then leave myself enough time to go out stalking, in the summer months I might leave home a 7pm and shoot till 9pm
 
As a recreational stalker, I don't want to night shoot. I enjoy being out before first light waiting on that legal first hour. I'm not so keen on shooting at last light, but I do it to keep the deer numbers down.
Thats fine, just because its legal doesnt mean you have to. I dont want to shoot woodies over decoys but other do
 
I’ve been on nv constantly too. Agree that doesn’t make them nocturnal but they do seem to be nocturnal around my way. None in the fields really other than transiting between places, all in woodland margins which are just outside my perms.
Eating acorns I expect!
Mine seem to be engaging in jungle warfare as they are all in stubble turnips an are totally camouflaged! These are mainly cwd!
 
Its a complicated matter and one that cant be evenly applied across the UK. No one is going to shoot muntjac to make money at a game dealer and the approach for professionals will be different from recreational and between areas.

Where I live there are virtually no deer and when one pops up people want to shoot it (not me I hasten to add). There are other areas where there are major issues with overpopulation.

For me I wont shoot deer unless I can get rid of them so the fact that I can get £1.75 per kilo from the game dealer allows me to do what I love and shoot deer. I do eat venison but with fallow it doesnt take many to fill the freezer.
 
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