Lead ban date announced

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Yeh but you can't reason with this pair of ballbags can you. They won't listen to any valid argument and fall back on the same old.

If it ain't what they do - they don't care. They couldn't care less if people shoot targets or gongs or anything else for that matter. As such, they're shooting themselves in the foot... although to be fair, they probably won't be shooting long enough to see the full shooting ban coming. I'm still positive heym is a packham bot
 
Liveonce said:
this may help you

BASC concluded that a pretty much total ban on the sale of lead based ammunition was necessary to make large scale game shooting tenable and sustainable,……. As if that will appease the anti shooting lot.

They just did not expect .243 to be included within the scope of the ban.
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Replaced lead with Dane-geld is what BASC sought to do. There's a rich seam of it under Marford Mill available in small nuggets mounted on a wood base for home display by mail order in their next quarterly magazine...that and the BASC logo branded "Fred Perry" with the four inch wide yellow stripe down the back seam.

Kipling summed it up well...

It is always a temptation for the rich and the lazy,
To puff and look important and to say:–
"Though we know we should defeat you,
we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the people that plays it is lost!"
 
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The fact is, as I wrote previously, when the EU measures are published (eventually) we will be able to see how useless and ineffective that BASC has been in respect of Great Britain and the UK measures unlike its French, German, Spanish and Etc. counterparts in the EU. This doesn't mean we should rejoin the EU or not but it does serve as a benchmark as to the impotence of BASC. Because to be honest (and just as CPSA also has in fact failed regarding lead shot for clay shooting) to many many people there's actually better insurance available without the need to fund a moribund organisation that is no longer serving its purpose it purports to exist for.
 
Heym SR20 said:
And you can just add that it was the Tory Government that initiated all the lead ban and the investigations by HSE etc into whether the continued use of lead was in proportion to the harm that it causes to human, animal and bird health and the much wider environment.
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Not quite true, the initial lead ban proposals came from the environmental lobby. They weren’t terribly successful.
The current push is coming from UK REACH based on the EU REACH proposals, which are in turn based on WHO guidelines.
The only input your government has had is to support the proposals, it made no difference whatsoever what party was in government. The permanent government did it and they didn’t ask anyone.
Heym SR20 said:
They concluded that there were other perfectly viable alternatives that are much less harmful. They also concluded that a pretty much total ban on the sale of lead based ammunition was necessary as there was plenty of evidence that the partial ban on lead for shooting wild fowl was not being adhered to.
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There are some holes appearing in this line of reasoning, for some reason you appear to be taking a more restrictive stance than most other countries.
 
Dunwaters said:
Not quite true, the initial lead ban proposals came from the environmental lobby. They weren’t terribly successful.
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In fact it was Prime Minister David Cameron (a passionate deer stalker) who's Environment Secretary Liz Truss (yes, that one) who rejected the lead ban proposals made in the early mid 2010s.
 
enfieldspares said:
In fact it was Prime Minister David Cameron (a passionate deer stalker) who's Environment Secretary Liz Truss (yes, that one) who rejected the lead ban proposals made in the early mid 2010s.
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So how come you’re still getting a ban?
Could it possibly be that the REACH policy decision to remove all lead ammunition in line with WHO recommendations of a zero safe level of exposure has not been successfully disputed or dismissed by anyone?
 
Dunwaters said:
So how come you’re still getting a ban?
Could it possibly be that the REACH policy decision to remove all lead ammunition in line with WHO recommendations of a zero safe level of exposure has not been successfully disputed or dismissed by anyone?
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Because as BASC claims to be "the authoritative voice of shooting in the UK" it has dominated the narrative of the proposals for a lead ban. Thus those individuals or smaller organisations such as the Scottish Gamekeepers' Association that rejected the idea were able to be dismissed by the UK Government and/or its civil service as not representative of shooters. Why? Because BASC was "the authoritative voice of shooting in the UK". So what anyone else said was "so what".

And BASC even before the UK REACH decision were calling from February 2020 for a lead shot ban for live quarry shooting to come in by February 2025. So your premise is correct. You can't face forward and fight what's to your front when those that are supposed to be stood behind you in support are actually stabbing you in the back. You've already surrendered the challenge before the fight proper has begun.

Like the boxer, when your own seconds have already thrown in your towel, you cannot then battle on in hope of dismissing or disputing or overturning the decision. Because your own corner's supposed support team have already cravenly and prematurely conceeded the result. Five years earlier. No putting it to a popular vote of the membership by general referendum, not even putting it to a simple show of hands at a quorate EGM or AGM. A 180 degree about turn decision made in camera and with the minutes still secret some six years post.
 
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Hopefully by the time it comes around the government will have been rearranged to my satisfaction and this tosh will get kicked into the hedge.
And shot .
With lead .
 
enfieldspares said:
Because as BASC claims to be "the authoritative voice of shooting in the UK" it has dominated the narrative of the proposals for a lead ban. Thus those individuals or smaller organisations such as the Scottish Gamekeepers' Association that rejected the idea were able to be dismissed by the UK Government and/or its civil service as not representative of shooters. Why? Because BASC was "the authoritative voice of shooting in the UK". So what anyone else said was "so what".

And BASC even before the UK REACH decision were calling from February 2020 for a lead shot ban for live quarry shooting to come in by February 2025. So your premise is correct. You can't face forward and fight what's to your front when those that are supposed to be stood behind you in support are actually stabbing you in the back. You've already surrendered the challenge before the fight proper has begun.

Like the boxer, when your own seconds have already thrown in your towel, you cannot then battle on in hope of dismissing or disputing or overturning the decision. Because your own corner's supposed support team have already cravenly and prematurely conceeded the result. Five years earlier. No putting it to a popular vote of the membership by general referendum, not even putting it to a simple show of hands at a quorate EGM or AGM. A 180 degree about turn decision made in camera and with the minutes still secret some six years post.
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It appeared that an agenda was in place at BASC headquarters to promote the acceptance of further lead shot restrictions despite the repeated claims that BASC was opposed to any further legislation being introduced. These facts are easily verified. When will BASC take accountability for failure to support their own policy and why was undermining that policy by BASC representatives not dealt with appropriately. Much effort has gone into silencing dissent by labelling ,bullying and harassing those willing to voice concerns regarding BASC’s shortcomings and contradictory behaviour .When will any effort be made by BASC to investigate the actions of those representatives that brought about the justified criticism that resulted in so many given bans from shooting forums that by their very nature should be holding BASC to account.
 
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