Just to clarify, CBL = captive bred lion. Have I got that correct?
2 Great Lions
- Thread starter Sampie Potgieter
- Start date
Yes sir.
Thank you!
Are we talking captive bred within landscape-scale enclosures?
Definitions like CBL refer to origin and are widely used within the hunting fraternity, but they should not be confused with how an animal is hunted or how it has lived its life until being hunted. There is a clear distinction between small intensive systems and properly managed, landscape-scale reserves with a self-sustaining prey base. Reducing the entire industry to an oversimplified label ignores the real management and conservation complexities involved.
So would CBL typically refer to the small intensive systems, or does it also get applied to the landscape-scale enclosures with a natural prey base?
I get what you're saying about "oversimplification" of the label, but I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the systems.
One day I'd like to come and see for myself, but until then all I can do is ask questions to increase my background knowledge
Good question, and this is exactly where most of the confusion comes in. CBL is mainly a legal / administrative term that refers to the origin of the animal, not necessarily the scale of the property or how the lion has lived or been hunted. Because of that, the same term gets used for everything from small intensive systems to large, well-managed landscape-scale reserves with a natural, self-sustaining prey base. From a management point of view those systems are completely different, but they often get discussed under one label, which is where the oversimplification starts hence so manny frown lion hunting even if its done the right way an genuinely not in a cage.
Thank you.
Sampie, you have already found a wide range of opinions and comments here, for myself, I would hunt anything in any country if it were presented in an ethical manner, your Lions appear to be so.
As you state, there are numbers in some species to be reduced, Just wish the idiots in Europe would operate in like manner, Wolves for instance being left to run riot without any form of numbers control, this one of the reasons that driven Boar are even more of a pot luck hunt.
Seems only Von der Leyen has been brought to her senses after losing livestock.
Ste.
As you state, there are numbers in some species to be reduced, Just wish the idiots in Europe would operate in like manner, Wolves for instance being left to run riot without any form of numbers control, this one of the reasons that driven Boar are even more of a pot luck hunt.
Seems only Von der Leyen has been brought to her senses after losing livestock.
Ste.
When you think about it rearing any animal to be hunted has a moral equivalence. Who says a lions life is more valuable than a fallow deer in a park, a pheasant or a kudu? If wild lion populations are declining the CBL does help to prevent extinction yet what happens to the surplus? Why should they not be used sustainably like any other species?
I think we need to make more use of the term "sustainable use conservation" in describing various hunting practices around the world that deliver postive conservation outcomes.
The phrase was coined, I believe, by a phd student who made a very worthwhile study into the landscape scale benefits that arise where target conservation species have value through hunting.
His study is well worth looking at.
The phrase was coined, I believe, by a phd student who made a very worthwhile study into the landscape scale benefits that arise where target conservation species have value through hunting.
His study is well worth looking at.
sako751sg
Well-Known Member
Exactly that.
It's amazing the mental gymnastics used to put certain legal species on a higher plane than others.
A bit closer to home would be stop growing "wild bird cover" on land that previously grew wheat/barley/rape/beans.
Stop throwing away "past sell by date" food which has to be of a certain shape before it is boxed then shipped here.
Sort out the bi-catch trawling
Then start to mention "sustainable use"
One part of Bi - Catch fishing wrecked my other halve's love of Skate, poor B'stards having their wings cut off & slung back to die.
Or the Shark Fin trade!One part of Bi - Catch fishing wrecked my other halve's love of Skate, poor B'stards having their wings cut off & slung back to die.
As 42 lion carcasses turned to ash, SA’s commitment to end captive breeding hangs in - Topic
tackb
Well-Known Member
don't then , simples
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
I doubt they were actual bi catch, commercials use every loop hole to exploit the sea for profit, awful proffesionOne part of Bi - Catch fishing wrecked my other halve's love of Skate, poor B'stards having their wings cut off & slung back to die.
The example that I'm thinking of involved some kind of mountain goat or antelope. Maybe a species of markhor?A bit closer to home would be stop growing "wild bird cover" on land that previously grew wheat/barley/rape/beans.
Stop throwing away "past sell by date" food which has to be of a certain shape before it is boxed then shipped here.
Sort out the bi-catch trawling
Then start to mention "sustainable use"
If I remember correctly, the situation was such that numbers had become perilously low, putting the species at risk of being wiped out altogether. All hunting had been banned, but local poachers continued to kill them indiscriminately, not only for food but because they viewed them as a pest, competing with their livestock for the limited available grazing.
The project involved re-introducing hunting on a strictly limited basis to fee-paying hunters from abroad. Suddenly this gave the species some value. Local people benefited from the income generated, so instead of persecuting the animals they started to protect them, and numbers began to increase quite rapidly. It was a win-win situation all round.
The young chap who monitored it all was, I believe, initially quite anti-hunting, but quickly changed his view as he saw how well the situation played out.
It was him, I think, who came up with the term "sustainable use conservation" to describe this model of wildlife management.
Now, I may have got a lot of the details wrong there, but you can get the gist of it I hope.
I think he was interviewed about it on the Fieldsports Channel, possibly some time during Covid? Maybe someone else remembers?
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Bust be easy getting in tight spaces with such a narrow mind
