243 fazination???
- Thread starter MARCBO
- Start date
MARCBO
Well-Known Member
Beware of blonds with 243's
Well,
I've had a very good belly laugh all weekend. Saturday I took my 11 y/o twins in to take their final hunter education training and exam. There was a younger woman (25-34) in the group as well that sort of attached herself to my kids. She blond, blued, about 5'5" and approximately 130lbs. Turns out she was taking the course in preparation to hunt with her father. In talking she told me she had ordered a new rifle and was hoping to get it within a month or so. When I asked what she had ordered I almost fell over backwards laughing. Turns out it is a 243 and the reascon for the special order was because this rifle is not offered in this caliber with an adult size stock!!!!!
Forgot to mention that she told me she had tried her brother's 308 but it "pushed back too hard"
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/axisxpyouthmg
SS
Well,
I've had a very good belly laugh all weekend. Saturday I took my 11 y/o twins in to take their final hunter education training and exam. There was a younger woman (25-34) in the group as well that sort of attached herself to my kids. She blond, blued, about 5'5" and approximately 130lbs. Turns out she was taking the course in preparation to hunt with her father. In talking she told me she had ordered a new rifle and was hoping to get it within a month or so. When I asked what she had ordered I almost fell over backwards laughing. Turns out it is a 243 and the reascon for the special order was because this rifle is not offered in this caliber with an adult size stock!!!!!
Forgot to mention that she told me she had tried her brother's 308 but it "pushed back too hard"
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/axisxpyouthmg
SS
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have to admit this .243 thing is getting a bit old. it's a fine calibre, so are any others from .22CF on deer up to and above 30cal of course. truth is, put the bullet of the right construction at the right speed (read distance) into the right place for that species and bullet, and you will have a dead deer very very quickly.
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
Well I never owned a .243 chambered rifle until a few years ago, seen to many fussy ones and it put me off the cartridge rifle combination. the only reason i ended up wit two was because I was offered the rifles chambered so. It was the Rifle model I was after chambering didn't matter to me. First one was the BSA Majestic Featherweight with BESA and Range Adaptor the second was the slightly customised Midland 2100.
My keeper friend had used a .243 rifle for many years here and also on the continent. He had an original Mannlicher Schoenauer Mdl 1903 re-barrelled and the magazine adapted in the late 1960's in Liege and has used it ever since. His grandson owns it now I believe.
I preferred the .256" or 6.5 mm.
My keeper friend had used a .243 rifle for many years here and also on the continent. He had an original Mannlicher Schoenauer Mdl 1903 re-barrelled and the magazine adapted in the late 1960's in Liege and has used it ever since. His grandson owns it now I believe.
I preferred the .256" or 6.5 mm.
In 25 years of stalking I had actualy owned a win 243 for 2 weeks I hated it so I bought a 6.5 x 55 and shot with that and a 30-06.
Then a 22-250 for Roe in Scotland. Until 2 months ago all my stalking had been in Scotland, I had sold my 6.5 and then gained some stalking in England so I needed a Roe Rifle but did not want a Win 243 so I went Mad and bought a 243WSSM.
It will be good when it grows up it weighs 6.5 lb scoped now i dont get a bad back carrying a 10lb rifle and now Miffy takes the Pi** because I told him I never wanted to own a 243, but needs must.
Then a 22-250 for Roe in Scotland. Until 2 months ago all my stalking had been in Scotland, I had sold my 6.5 and then gained some stalking in England so I needed a Roe Rifle but did not want a Win 243 so I went Mad and bought a 243WSSM.
It will be good when it grows up it weighs 6.5 lb scoped now i dont get a bad back carrying a 10lb rifle and now Miffy takes the Pi** because I told him I never wanted to own a 243, but needs must.
MARCBO
Well-Known Member
again,
depends what you load them with. use 100g partitions keep them below 2800 and you have a very efficient killing bullet that goes deep, expands well, but not overly so, and always exits for tracking purposes.
personally I don't think I've ever had exits on deer with my .243's over 3/4" diameter. my 30-06 with 180g partitions on roe would, I kid you not, leave a fist sized exit hole, sometimes cleanly take the offside shoulder and leg off, and I tell you what, the beasts would still run 25-50 yds! whereas with the .243 I think the longest run I've had with roe must have been 20yds, usually 0yds.
now you can't tell me that's a better outcome
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
out last night on a licensed control permission and shot a fallow buck with a 375 h&h and 250gr at full load. Well.... lets be honest with the privilage of choice between .308 and 375 it felt great to let go with the gun that ususally resides in the cabinet between pig hunts
Why choose 'adequate' when a range of really awesome calibres gives you a choice of so much better in the shoulder
Why choose 'adequate' when a range of really awesome calibres gives you a choice of so much better in the shoulder
If a 100-gr bullet from a .257 Roberts will kill and deer, so will a .243.
I have only owned two, never used them, and just bought them because of the condition and sold them to friends - A Sako Forester and a Mannlicher Schoenauer MCAView attachment 43993. Should have kept one.
I have only owned two, never used them, and just bought them because of the condition and sold them to friends - A Sako Forester and a Mannlicher Schoenauer MCAView attachment 43993. Should have kept one.
MARCBO
Well-Known Member
Scots_stalker
Well-Known Member
My name is brian and i admit it. I LOVE MY 243. , and yes i do own a 308 too
LOL ! I was rescuing these rifles from the hands of heathens who might alter their natural beauty.
Yes, FT-LBS of energy is not the whole story. Energy increases with the square of velocity, so a light fast bullet may have the same energy as a bigger, slower bullet, but the big bullet has more momentum, which is just velocity time mass, a linear characteristic. Muzzle velocity is not what counts. Impact velocity and mass count, and retained mass means more penetration. My experience has been that the faster bullets, in any caliber, exhibit less reliable behavior than those launched and impacting at moderate speeds, like the 6.5x55 with 140 gr, .303 Brit with 180 gr, 8x57 with 195 grains. You just cannot build a 100-gr bullet with the same thickness jacket as a 180-gr bullet, nor can you scale the thickness, and expect the same performance.
Yes, FT-LBS of energy is not the whole story. Energy increases with the square of velocity, so a light fast bullet may have the same energy as a bigger, slower bullet, but the big bullet has more momentum, which is just velocity time mass, a linear characteristic. Muzzle velocity is not what counts. Impact velocity and mass count, and retained mass means more penetration. My experience has been that the faster bullets, in any caliber, exhibit less reliable behavior than those launched and impacting at moderate speeds, like the 6.5x55 with 140 gr, .303 Brit with 180 gr, 8x57 with 195 grains. You just cannot build a 100-gr bullet with the same thickness jacket as a 180-gr bullet, nor can you scale the thickness, and expect the same performance.
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I'm curious - why does the .243 arouse such hostility?
It seems to be perfect when used appropriately - foxes up to small fallow. Why subject yourself to unnecessary recoil if you don't need to?
The accusation that it can't be powerful enough because children and women can use it makes no sense: in virtually all other spheres of life, characteristics that make a tool easier to use for the weaker or less competent are active selling points. You don't see people trying to market 4X4s without power steering 'because ladies and kids can drive one with power steering'!
It seems very much in its favour that it has mild recoil and yet can still effectively bring down small deer, and in the hands of a competent shot, larger deer.
I have noticed that the .243 prejudice is particularly strong with North Americans. I've been recently introducing a Canadian friend to roe deer stalking in Scotland, and he was aghast that we were going out with 'only' a .243. He was so nervous about it he refused to take a shot and muttered darkly about my lack of ethics - he was convinced that we should be going out with a .308, minimum. He was then astonished when I brought down 2 bucks with no fuss at all. All through the gralloch and extraction, he was shaking his head and muttering 'who would have believed it!'. I think the North American hunting press has a lot to answer for.
I very nearly got rid of my .243 after getting a .308, but am very glad I didn't. It is a very pleasing round to use.
It seems to be perfect when used appropriately - foxes up to small fallow. Why subject yourself to unnecessary recoil if you don't need to?
The accusation that it can't be powerful enough because children and women can use it makes no sense: in virtually all other spheres of life, characteristics that make a tool easier to use for the weaker or less competent are active selling points. You don't see people trying to market 4X4s without power steering 'because ladies and kids can drive one with power steering'!
It seems very much in its favour that it has mild recoil and yet can still effectively bring down small deer, and in the hands of a competent shot, larger deer.
I have noticed that the .243 prejudice is particularly strong with North Americans. I've been recently introducing a Canadian friend to roe deer stalking in Scotland, and he was aghast that we were going out with 'only' a .243. He was so nervous about it he refused to take a shot and muttered darkly about my lack of ethics - he was convinced that we should be going out with a .308, minimum. He was then astonished when I brought down 2 bucks with no fuss at all. All through the gralloch and extraction, he was shaking his head and muttering 'who would have believed it!'. I think the North American hunting press has a lot to answer for.
I very nearly got rid of my .243 after getting a .308, but am very glad I didn't. It is a very pleasing round to use.
On a game farm in South Africa the owners told me they give their guests 243's as most seem recoil intolerant and seem to shoot better with the 243. Up to Kudu size they use 243 from their on they pull out the rigby.
My reason for looking at another 243 is long range vermin shooting. I am not happy shooting the 308 with a 168gr bullet on a flat field out to 500yd+ because of the possible bounce. A 75-87gr bullet has less mass and is more likely to break up on impact and I can still use a 105gr for our small deer.
For general deer shooting I think the 308 would be way ahead of a 243. No problem using smaller calibre's such 22-250/243 on deer if one uses them like a surgical tool. (we can shoot all deer with a 22-250)
edi
ps. I have yet to see a cal that drops a sika as fast as a 22-250 does on a H/L shot.
My reason for looking at another 243 is long range vermin shooting. I am not happy shooting the 308 with a 168gr bullet on a flat field out to 500yd+ because of the possible bounce. A 75-87gr bullet has less mass and is more likely to break up on impact and I can still use a 105gr for our small deer.
For general deer shooting I think the 308 would be way ahead of a 243. No problem using smaller calibre's such 22-250/243 on deer if one uses them like a surgical tool. (we can shoot all deer with a 22-250)
edi
ps. I have yet to see a cal that drops a sika as fast as a 22-250 does on a H/L shot.
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Theoretical ballistics is just that. Proof is in the thousands of dead deer that fall to a 243 or smaller each year in the UK and Europe.
I am led to believe that when the deer act came into force there needed to be a benchmark for deer. The reason .243 was chosen was due to the fact HM The Queen had her own rifle in this calibre built for her by Holland and Holland (.240) Hence when the act came into force it wouldn't have looked good if a larger calibre was chosen. Not sure if this is actually true or not but it would seem logical or HRH would have been using a non deer calibre ( although it may well have been in past years ). I certainly am not aware of any studies being done to decide the calibre should be .240/234 for purposes of legality.
Repeating what I said at the first of this thread, I think the .243 has gotten a bad rap in North America because it is so often a beginner rifle for young shooters and women, who make make bad shots and wound deer. Also, a lot of people don't understand ballistics, see it shooting almost to the same spot from 50 to 200 yards, because they cannot hold as well as the rifle can shoot, and think they can shoot at 300 and 400 yards, when they cannot even estimate the range. I hear people from the West and Canada also complain of .243 deer hunters who use it on moose, bear, and elk, with more wounding.
Last but not least is the Macho Factor. The explosion of the deer population in parts of the US brought a lot of new hunters into the sport who had never hunted until in their late 20s. They all had to have a 7mm Rem Mag or a .300 Win Mag. To them, the .243 looks puny.
But I have friends who always shot .30-06 or .270, after starting out their son or daughter on a .243, decide they like it themselves, and realize that, at the ranges they shoot deer, the .30-06 / .270 / .280 is just literally overkill. The .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, 6.5x55 are mild, easy to shoot, and very good deer cartridges.
8x57
Distinguished Member
I heard a similar story though it referred to their lordships in the upper house and not the Queen. Their lordships knowing something about stalking as most of them at that time were landed gentry advised the smallest calibre suitable for deer that was made by H&H a company that many of them would have been familiar with. I don't know what calibre the Queen may have used at that time but I do know that in the museum of the Birmingham proof house is a BSA in .308w made for Prince Phillip. The story goes that BSA sent him a bill for £200 to cover the cost of the build. He reciprocated by sending them an invoice for a similar amount for consultancy fees so they called it quits.
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if you have 5 minutes of your life to waste and are up for a good laugh! - 243 is not a DEER gun : Deer Hunting
