I went through a whole similar thought process about 12 years ago.
I bought a 6.5x55 and haven't looked back!
I bought a 6.5x55 and haven't looked back!
.243 or .308?!
- Thread starter BunnyDoom
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- .243 .308 ballistics
charlieg43
Well-Known Member
Just looking at the original thread, I have a few questions.
Firstly, I'm sure a 308. will retain more punch than a 243. For example, if I stood 50 yards away and through tennis balls and cricket balls at a target, the heavier cricket balls would surely retain more energy at the target. The 308. with a 150 grain bullet is far heavier so will retain more energy at the target....surely?
Also, I agree with the statement about 243 retaining less wind drift, but the speed at the target is irrelevent unless you place your bullet correctly. Placement is EVERYTHING in UK stalking. Unless your shooting over a really really long distance, and as long as your confident with your rifle, a 243 can be used on all UK deer species. Most shots of sticks will be taken at ranges a lot less than 200 yards, so it seems an irrelevant distance, to me anyway. The bullets are cheaper than a 308 too so its lighter on the pocket!
Hope this gives some food for thought. Good thread, im enjoying reading through all the bits and pieces
Firstly, I'm sure a 308. will retain more punch than a 243. For example, if I stood 50 yards away and through tennis balls and cricket balls at a target, the heavier cricket balls would surely retain more energy at the target. The 308. with a 150 grain bullet is far heavier so will retain more energy at the target....surely?
Also, I agree with the statement about 243 retaining less wind drift, but the speed at the target is irrelevent unless you place your bullet correctly. Placement is EVERYTHING in UK stalking. Unless your shooting over a really really long distance, and as long as your confident with your rifle, a 243 can be used on all UK deer species. Most shots of sticks will be taken at ranges a lot less than 200 yards, so it seems an irrelevant distance, to me anyway. The bullets are cheaper than a 308 too so its lighter on the pocket!
Hope this gives some food for thought. Good thread, im enjoying reading through all the bits and pieces
243 was not called the dog gun for nothing every thing you shoot at turns to dog meat 
i have a 243 love it 308 never had one never shot one would not have one loopy trajectory drops like a brick 243 fast flat destructive 55g to115g rounds acurate good for every thing in the uk easey to load for nead i say more 243 is my go to gun and i have a 7mm rem mag 
for vermin 
i have a 243 love it 308 never had one never shot one would not have one loopy trajectory drops like a brick 243 fast flat destructive 55g to115g rounds acurate good for every thing in the uk easey to load for nead i say more 243 is my go to gun and i have a 7mm rem mag for vermin Thanks again everyone, very interesting stuff!... I'm going to keep the .243 (changing the gun though) and get a larger calibre too... so one last set of questions off the back of all of your comments:
The 7mm-08, .308, and 30-06 all appear to perform similarly (on a ballistics programme)...? So what's the benefit (if any) of one over the other two?
Also, is cost of rounds and ability to source significantly different for any of them?
The 7mm-08, .308, and 30-06 all appear to perform similarly (on a ballistics programme)...? So what's the benefit (if any) of one over the other two?
Also, is cost of rounds and ability to source significantly different for any of them?
kennyc
Well-Known Member
of the 3 .308 is the cheapest to run when you factor in practise ammo other than that you will find people to support all 3 you pay your money you take your chances
On the internet, you can pick any one of those three, find a unique point about it, and claim it as a benefit.
In the real world, pick any one of those three and you will be happy. The difference at all practical stalking ranges is hair-splittingly small. Choose one using whatever criteria seem important to you, safe in the knowledge that there is no wrong answer.
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
think the internet has a lot to answer for!
I shot my first stag aged 15 (a few years ago...)
I learned to shoot with people who had been doing the same since they were 15 (or younger!). Uncles, Father etc.
The Internet was a decade or two away and ballistics were something that someone else studied.
Calibre choice was easy. we all used the same and had little or no interest in changing or getting another for the same job.
We shot 1-2" groups with factory ammo and were very happy with that.
We zeroed an inch high knowing that anything inside 250yds was point and shoot, dead on its feet. Small Roe or 25 stone Red. made no difference.
But then we did all use a .270....
take any calibre between .243 and .308
zero it 1" high at 100 yards and the MPBR will be marginally different. The kind of distances that no-one can differentiate without a range finder!
drops at 100, 200 and 300yds will also be marginally different. The kind of measurements that if you can honestly measure on the side of a deer at 150tds on a misty morning you have better eyes than most.
if you can't tell the different between 283 yards and 275 yards when viewed across uneven terrain then just find a gun that fits, you can can feed with available ammunition in a 100-150gr range and go practice!
they all do the same thing!
the important numbers here are the ones in bold on the right.
Its the maximum range that keeps the bullets trajectory in a 3" zone from muzzle to arrival. still think that some are "flatter" than others!?
[TABLE="width: 55%"]
[TR]
[TD]Cartridge (Wb@MV)[/TD]
[TD]Bullet BC[/TD]
[TD]100 yds.[/TD]
[TD]200 yds.[/TD]
[TD]MRT@yds.[/TD]
[TD]MPBR (yds.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
.243 Win. (95 BT at 3100)* .379 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 300
.243 Win. (100 Sp at 2960) .351 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 283
.257 Roberts (100 Sp at 3000) .336 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@150 286
.257 Roberts (120 Sp at 2780) .391 +2.7" +1.6" 3"@125 271
.257 Rob. Imp. (115 BT at 2900) .453 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 286
.25-06 Rem. (120 Sp at 2990) .391 +2.5" +2.0" 3"@145 291
6.5x55 (125 NP at 2875) .449 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@135 284
.260 Rem. (120 Sp at 2890) .433 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@135 284
6.5-284 Norma (140 at 2900) .435 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@140 286
6.5x65 RWS (127 Sp at 3313) .449 +2.4" +2.6" 3"@160 323
6.5x68 S (140 Sp at 2990) .435 +2.6" +2.1" 3"@150 294
.264 Win. Mag. (140 Sp at 3100) .435 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 303
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 at 2800) .325 +2.6" +1.3" 3"@130 267
.270 Win. (130 Sp at 3140) .416 +2.5" +2.4" 3"@150 305
.270 WSM (130 Sp at 3206) .416 +2.4" +2.4" 3"@150 311
7x57 (140 BT at 2660) .485 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@125 264
7mm-08 Rem. (140 BT at 2860) .485 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 285
7x64 (140 BT at 3000) .485 +2.6" +2.2" 3"@150 298
7x65R (175 Sp at 2650) .465 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@125 262
.284 Win. (150 Sp at 2750) .456 +2.7" +1.6" 3"@130 272
.280 Rem. (140 BT at 3000) .485 +2.6" +2.2" 3"@150 298
7mm SAUM (150 Sp at 3110) .456 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 305
7mm WSM (150 Sp at 3200) .456 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 314
.275 H&H Mag. (160 Sp at 3050) .475 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@145 301
7x61 S&H (154 SP at 3060) .433 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 300
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) .485 +2.5" +2.4" 3"@150 310
7mm Wby. Mag. (154 at 3260) .433 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 317
7mm STW (160 Sp at 3185) .475 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 313
7mm Ultra Mag (160 at 3200) .475 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 314
7.5x55 (180 Sp at 2566) .431 +2.8" +0.9" 3"@125 252
.300 Sav. (150 BT at 2630) .435 +2.8" +1.2" 3"@125 259
.308 Win. (150 BT at 2800) .435 +2.7" +1.7" 3"@135 275
I shot my first stag aged 15 (a few years ago...)
I learned to shoot with people who had been doing the same since they were 15 (or younger!). Uncles, Father etc.
The Internet was a decade or two away and ballistics were something that someone else studied.
Calibre choice was easy. we all used the same and had little or no interest in changing or getting another for the same job.
We shot 1-2" groups with factory ammo and were very happy with that.
We zeroed an inch high knowing that anything inside 250yds was point and shoot, dead on its feet. Small Roe or 25 stone Red. made no difference.
But then we did all use a .270....
take any calibre between .243 and .308
zero it 1" high at 100 yards and the MPBR will be marginally different. The kind of distances that no-one can differentiate without a range finder!
drops at 100, 200 and 300yds will also be marginally different. The kind of measurements that if you can honestly measure on the side of a deer at 150tds on a misty morning you have better eyes than most.
if you can't tell the different between 283 yards and 275 yards when viewed across uneven terrain then just find a gun that fits, you can can feed with available ammunition in a 100-150gr range and go practice!
they all do the same thing!
the important numbers here are the ones in bold on the right.
Its the maximum range that keeps the bullets trajectory in a 3" zone from muzzle to arrival. still think that some are "flatter" than others!?
[TABLE="width: 55%"]
[TR]
[TD]Cartridge (Wb@MV)[/TD]
[TD]Bullet BC[/TD]
[TD]100 yds.[/TD]
[TD]200 yds.[/TD]
[TD]MRT@yds.[/TD]
[TD]MPBR (yds.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
.243 Win. (95 BT at 3100)* .379 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 300
.243 Win. (100 Sp at 2960) .351 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 283
.257 Roberts (100 Sp at 3000) .336 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@150 286
.257 Roberts (120 Sp at 2780) .391 +2.7" +1.6" 3"@125 271
.257 Rob. Imp. (115 BT at 2900) .453 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 286
.25-06 Rem. (120 Sp at 2990) .391 +2.5" +2.0" 3"@145 291
6.5x55 (125 NP at 2875) .449 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@135 284
.260 Rem. (120 Sp at 2890) .433 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@135 284
6.5-284 Norma (140 at 2900) .435 +2.6" +2.0" 3"@140 286
6.5x65 RWS (127 Sp at 3313) .449 +2.4" +2.6" 3"@160 323
6.5x68 S (140 Sp at 2990) .435 +2.6" +2.1" 3"@150 294
.264 Win. Mag. (140 Sp at 3100) .435 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 303
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 at 2800) .325 +2.6" +1.3" 3"@130 267
.270 Win. (130 Sp at 3140) .416 +2.5" +2.4" 3"@150 305
.270 WSM (130 Sp at 3206) .416 +2.4" +2.4" 3"@150 311
7x57 (140 BT at 2660) .485 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@125 264
7mm-08 Rem. (140 BT at 2860) .485 +2.6" +1.9" 3"@140 285
7x64 (140 BT at 3000) .485 +2.6" +2.2" 3"@150 298
7x65R (175 Sp at 2650) .465 +2.7" +1.3" 3"@125 262
.284 Win. (150 Sp at 2750) .456 +2.7" +1.6" 3"@130 272
.280 Rem. (140 BT at 3000) .485 +2.6" +2.2" 3"@150 298
7mm SAUM (150 Sp at 3110) .456 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 305
7mm WSM (150 Sp at 3200) .456 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 314
.275 H&H Mag. (160 Sp at 3050) .475 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@145 301
7x61 S&H (154 SP at 3060) .433 +2.5" +2.3" 3"@150 300
7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) .485 +2.5" +2.4" 3"@150 310
7mm Wby. Mag. (154 at 3260) .433 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 317
7mm STW (160 Sp at 3185) .475 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 313
7mm Ultra Mag (160 at 3200) .475 +2.4" +2.5" 3"@150 314
7.5x55 (180 Sp at 2566) .431 +2.8" +0.9" 3"@125 252
.300 Sav. (150 BT at 2630) .435 +2.8" +1.2" 3"@125 259
.308 Win. (150 BT at 2800) .435 +2.7" +1.7" 3"@135 275
As ever guys incredibly helpful - really appreciate all your comments.
Taking into account all of the above, weirdly enough I suspect this may come down to price now - going from all your comments, as long as it can chuck 150gn slug with enough power then there's pro's and con's to all... so basically it's going to be a case of what the best deal I can get in the rifle model and calibre is (after accounting for cost of ammo)!
I'm going to keep the .243 as well, though will likely change the rifle. If I find myself favouring one over the other I may get rid of it and swap for a foxing rifle or maybe some really special optics.
Brit - re your earlier comment, sadly no I'm not a lottery winner... though I am working in a career I probably wouldn't choose again in exchange for a reasonable living, so budget is about £2k for the gun and scope together (will still have to save as have a mortgage etc!). I'm 99% set on a Sako 85, and am trying to decide on a decent scope - I like the Duralyt illuminated, Leupold vxr firedot's, and lightstream - all of which I should be able to get within budget. Any reccomendations on scope would be good though...
Taking into account all of the above, weirdly enough I suspect this may come down to price now - going from all your comments, as long as it can chuck 150gn slug with enough power then there's pro's and con's to all... so basically it's going to be a case of what the best deal I can get in the rifle model and calibre is (after accounting for cost of ammo)!
I'm going to keep the .243 as well, though will likely change the rifle. If I find myself favouring one over the other I may get rid of it and swap for a foxing rifle or maybe some really special optics.
Brit - re your earlier comment, sadly no I'm not a lottery winner... though I am working in a career I probably wouldn't choose again in exchange for a reasonable living, so budget is about £2k for the gun and scope together (will still have to save as have a mortgage etc!). I'm 99% set on a Sako 85, and am trying to decide on a decent scope - I like the Duralyt illuminated, Leupold vxr firedot's, and lightstream - all of which I should be able to get within budget. Any reccomendations on scope would be good though...
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
Hmmm nice.. Let's see 2K new scope leaves about tuppence for the rifle
. Seriously you should be able to get a good set up for your budget. The price of new stuff is terrifying to me 
. As for lottery wins ................................ well we can all dream.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Far more important than the calibre is choice of bullet and shot placement. Use a ballistic tip varmint style bullet in any calibre you will have a mess sooner or later. I want a bullet that is hard enough so that it will pentrate throught the vitals and out the other side even if my shot is slightly off and the bullet goes through the shoulder. Normally this means a good old fashioned soft point bullet that is heavy for calibre, so you get the penetration. Whether that is from a 243 or 308 or anything else provided its in the right place, you have dead deer. Granted a bigger claibre may knock the deer stright over, and a smaller calibre, it may run a bit more, but dead is dead.
My local gunclub does not allow .308 because it is a military round. God knows why this matters, but there you are. So as I wanted a Browning Lever Rifle for the speed of use and easily available ammo, the only ammo choice was .243. Never regretted it as it has taken the biggest reds with no problems. Hit in the heart, head or neck with ballistic tips and down they go. The .243 is very accurate and the recoil is low so you can see what happened to the quarry. The other really great thing about the lever rifle is that, unlike with the slow clickitty clack sound of a slow bolt which gives the position away far more than the shot, the lever reload is so fast that its sound mixes in with the shot sonic boom and the deer have no idea where the shot came from. So if they hear anything much at all, they stand around wondering where to run to, because they would rather work out where you are first than run towards you by mistake. So you have plenty of time for a second or third deer from a herd before they work out that something must be amiss because their mates keep falling over. But they seldom panic, just walk off. Accuracy and silence matter most, but speed is an underestimated quality in UK stalking. A fast, accurate, second or third shot can literally double the number of deer taken in a day, which matters a lot if you are culling. In my humble opinion, the BLR in .243 with ballistic tip ammo smoking along around 3,000fps, plus Shmitt scope and reflex silencer is the best deer combo available. Fine for anything else in the UK too.
Hi @Doggone , you have joined a thread that is a couple of months short of 8 years old ...... as this was your first post your (other) mistake was not to offer an introduction in the relevant section Introductions
8x57
Distinguished Member
Hi @Doggone , first post and you're already an absolute legend mate!
As Miki has already pointed out the thread is 8 years old, (it's a common thing with new site members not to notice the posting dates). Also just to make you aware you managed to jump straight in with what has been a bit of a controversial subject on the site namely head shooting. Have a look at previous posts on the subject and you will see that it past debates have soon degenerated into squabbles between members who have strong opposing views on the subject.
I'm most intrigued by your statement that your local rifle club will not allow .308 on the range because it's a military cartridge. Let's have a bit more detail on that because I think you must be mistaken or misinformed on that one. The .308 is not a military cartridge the 7.62x51 is a military cartridge. I can't think of any full-bore rifle club in the U.K. that wouldn't allow it other than those that only shoot on pistol calibre ranges. In fact 7.62x51 and it's equivalent civilian cartridge the .308win is by far the most popular centrefire rifle cartridge used for target shooting in the U.K. and the NRA sell hundreds of thousands of these rounds to clubs and individuals each year.
How about having another stab at joining the forum and posting an introduction.
As Miki has already pointed out the thread is 8 years old, (it's a common thing with new site members not to notice the posting dates). Also just to make you aware you managed to jump straight in with what has been a bit of a controversial subject on the site namely head shooting. Have a look at previous posts on the subject and you will see that it past debates have soon degenerated into squabbles between members who have strong opposing views on the subject.
I'm most intrigued by your statement that your local rifle club will not allow .308 on the range because it's a military cartridge. Let's have a bit more detail on that because I think you must be mistaken or misinformed on that one. The .308 is not a military cartridge the 7.62x51 is a military cartridge. I can't think of any full-bore rifle club in the U.K. that wouldn't allow it other than those that only shoot on pistol calibre ranges. In fact 7.62x51 and it's equivalent civilian cartridge the .308win is by far the most popular centrefire rifle cartridge used for target shooting in the U.K. and the NRA sell hundreds of thousands of these rounds to clubs and individuals each year.
How about having another stab at joining the forum and posting an introduction.
Not sure if I have posted on this thread before, but if you have any inkling that you might be shooting roe in Scotland then avoid the .243.
The lead ban will come, like it or not, and there is no legal non lead ammunition available for the .243, nor is there likely to be.
The lead ban will come, like it or not, and there is no legal non lead ammunition available for the .243, nor is there likely to be.
sir-lamp-alot
Well-Known Member
ive got a .243 and have shot everything bar reds with it and have never felt under gunned ive owned a few .308's as well and ive really liked them also and have never taken anything with the .308 that i couldnt have with the .243
alot of people will also say that a .308 will give you better margin of error on shot placement but a bad shot with a .243 is still a bad shot with a .308 so forget that, but with that said i will hold my hands up and say if i was shooting a lot of fallow sika or reds I would have the .308.
if your doing a lot of foxing though the .243 will give you easier access to more varmint type loads if needed.
both calibres are more than capable for what you will need and you cant really make the wrong choice just go with what you fancy
alot of people will also say that a .308 will give you better margin of error on shot placement but a bad shot with a .243 is still a bad shot with a .308 so forget that, but with that said i will hold my hands up and say if i was shooting a lot of fallow sika or reds I would have the .308.
if your doing a lot of foxing though the .243 will give you easier access to more varmint type loads if needed.
both calibres are more than capable for what you will need and you cant really make the wrong choice just go with what you fancy
I have two 308’s, a 30-06 and 6mm Creed. No point getting a 30-06 if you only intend on having a 20” barrel. 30-06 needs at least 24”, 26” preferably, to have any real world advantage over the 308 in my view unless 308 is banned wherever you plan on using it. 30-06 can also require a longer action. Another point to consider if rifle length matters to you.
308 win is more than adequate for anything you will hunt in the UK and has put everything down with authority. Also good for target out to 1500 yards in the right setup. Ammo and reloading components readily available. I can’t think of a single downside to a 308
Forgot to say, meat damage can also be less with a 308. I had more meat damage with a .243 I used to have than the 308. In addition to regular stalking, I’ve culled park reds with a .243 and .308. I’d definitely pick the 308 every time
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I thought it was settled 7 years ago. .243 is rubbish. They're only good for shooting clothes pegs off the washing line in the back garden and even then if you don't hit them right they won't drop. That's what I use mine for and frankly £1000 was wildly extravagant for the purpose. Should've bought a catapult.
Let’s be honest the 308 is not exactly a cannon and definitely isn’t too much for Roe and small deer. In fact it is a perfect woodland stalking calibre and I see my strike with the 308 99% of the time. It does hit far harder than the 6mm and 6.5s , if in doubt shoot a steel target with both and see the difference. The 7/08 is a good round that is hamstrung by ammo availability.
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