.243 or 6.5...

[Stumpy2]

I have both 243 and 6.5 creedmoor and have used both for all uk deer species and both are capable (usual put the bullet in the right place caveat applies)
As you already have a 222 I would pick the 6.5 creedmoor. If rifle and ammunition costs are a concern look at a second hand rifle and reloading. Realistically how many rounds a year will you be firing in the 6.5? When you have an idea of the number, work out how much diesel you’ll buy travelling to and from your ground. Ammunition costs are a small spend in comparison. All the best

 

[dropmdead]

As a suggestion,swap the 222 for a 243 and buy a cheaper larger caliber eg. a 270 for when it's needed.
You can pick up for example a Parker Hale etc in 270 for a reasonable sum without feeling that it's a large wasted money sitting in the cabinet.

 

[JMikeyH]

Not to be pedantic, but as I have mentioned previously in other threads, the DWG report which recommends a move to non-lead ammunition for deer in Scotland then goes on to recommend that minimum mass requirements are reviewed and dropped to take into account the transition to copper projectiles. 80gr was their initial estimate if I recall correctly.

It is not all doom-and-gloom for the .243Win...

Good news! Thanks for letting me know

 

[J.kerslake]

I have both 243 and 6.5 creedmoor and have used both for all uk deer species and both are capable (usual put the bullet in the right place caveat applies)
As you already have a 222 I would pick the 6.5 creedmoor. If rifle and ammunition costs are a concern look at a second hand rifle and reloading. Realistically how many rounds a year will you be firing in the 6.5? When you have an idea of the number, work out how much diesel you’ll buy travelling to and from your ground. Ammunition costs are a small spend in comparison. All the best

Yeah that makes sense to look at a 6.5 as I have a .222. Cost wise I might only go through a box of 20 every 4-6 weeks, luckily live on a farm so don’t have to travel to my permission.

 

[J.kerslake]

As a suggestion,swap the 222 for a 243 and buy a cheaper larger caliber eg. a 270 for when it's needed.
You can pick up for example a Parker Hale etc in 270 for a reasonable sum without feeling that it's a large wasted money sitting in the cabinet.

I’ll definitely be keeping the .222 as it was gifted to me by my grandfather. As for looking at other calibres besides the .243 or 6.5 it Is a mine field

 

[Island]

6.5 all the way. Doesn't matter what cartridge, whichever one you fancy. I've had .243 and 6.5 and would take the 6.5 every time.

.243 is fast. Because it uses light bullets it has to be fast to be legal. Velocity causes trauma and I found I got lots of bloodshot meat with the .243 because of that. I shoot mainly roe and munties at fairly close range in woodland. No matter what you want to do, you can't slow it down and at short woodland ranges damage can be pretty severe. A 100gr bullet, which is about as heavy as a .243 can manage and some struggle with that, needs 2770fps to make 1700ft-lbs.

6.5, well you can up the bullet weight on a .243 by 60% with a heavy load. You can get crazy velocity out of it with 100gr bullets if you want to though. So the 6.5 does both. It's still not a huge round so recoil isn't an issue. A 140gr bullet needs 2340fps to make 1700ft-lbs.

If you want a possible heavy foxing rifle too then both are great, but with a 95gr V-Max there's not a lot on offer from the .243 that the 6.5 can't do. It's just so much more versatile. Then there's the possible issue of a non toxic bullet requirement coming in later on. The .243 is looking to be seriously at risk in Scotland unless the law is changed. The 6.5 however will then be one of the smallest calibres able to do the job.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record....

The same report that recommends a change in law to outlaw lead projectiles for shooting deer also recommends a change in law regarding minimum mass required to take into account the different characteristics of a mono-metal projectile.

 

[TURNBOLT]

I replaced my 243with a 6.5 creedmoor,it’s the only one I take out of the cabinet now.Best thing I have done in a long time.

 

[1894]

Realistically roe is the biggest thing I’m going to shoot, as it stand I’ve been using the .222 for foxes and the odd muntjac of which it is more than capable. I just wonder if I’d be over gunning myself with a 6.5! I’ve no interest in long distance shooting, infact part of the enjoyment in stalking for me is the getting close! Cheap does appeal to me!!

I had a 6.5x55 built as a do all. Love it. Then I got quite a lot of arable roe stalking. I needed flat shooting. 100gr ballistic tips worked well but they can be quite violent on carcasses. I started using a 243 and much much prefer it on roe. Flat shooting but smaller holes.

Either will work but if I had my time again I'd get a 243 for roe and if I started shooting larger deer get a 308 (although I now use a 243 on them by choice)

 

[J.kerslake]

I had a 6.5x55 built as a do all. Love it. Then I got quite a lot of arable roe stalking. I needed flat shooting. 100gr ballistic tips worked well but they can be quite violent on carcasses. I started using a 243 and much much prefer it on roe. Flat shooting but smaller holes.

Either will work but if I had my time again I'd get a 243 for roe and if I started shooting larger deer get a 308 (although I now use a 243 on them by choice)

You’ve just thrown a spanner in the works I was all but convinced to go 6.5 until you said that!

 

[1894]

Well neither is wrong but truly a well sorted 243 is a lovely thing. Such a wide variety of bullets, ammunition and so well balanced. Roe are quite small, are more likely to be at range and don't take a huge amount of killing. A 85-95gr bullet suffices, gives less recoil and is a tad flatter shooting. Hit a shoulder at 50yds you get blood shot but reasonable holes. Do the same with a 120gr 6.5 ballistic tip and you'll need to turn the carcass over for photos.
If you start to shoot larger deer an extra 308 etc means you don't have to swap loads, pfaff with scopes and have a spare if something breaks.

 

[Cranhill]

Consider them forgotten already.

Odd comment, I use 6.5 x 57 (and have 30yrs+), we have 3 owners in our syndicate, it has better range of bullets available and suitable for anything including (in the right hands) Wild boar and Elk.

 

[icedog]

Not much to choose from between the 6.5x55 Swedish and the 6.5 Creed, especially for a hunter. My first 6.5 was a converted military ... liked the cartridge so much that I replaced the rifle with 6.5x55 Tikka. Gotta love the mild recoil, ease of reloading, effectiveness of the long for calibre/weight projectiles, and the accuracy. Lots of choices in the cabinets, but the 6.5 gets more outings than any of the others.

 

[njc110381]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record....

The same report that recommends a change in law to outlaw lead projectiles for shooting deer also recommends a change in law regarding minimum mass required to take into account the different characteristics of a mono-metal projectile.

Fair enough. In that case scrap that point. I stand by the fact that .243 for close range deer is a poor choice though.

 

[zambezi]

Not much to choose from between the 6.5x55 Swedish and the 6.5 Creed, especially for a hunter

Agree. Looking at cartridges supplied by Sako in each of those chamberings reveals a sub 5% difference in MV for same weight projectile.

...but ammo availability for the 6.5x55mm Swede is widely stocked. That said, CM is getting more popular, and if you reload commercial availability is a non-argument.

 

[Island]

Fair enough. In that case scrap that point. I stand by the fact that .243 for close range deer is a poor choice though.

To be honest, I agree with you to a degree.

Largely because the .243Win seems to be one of those chamberings where people are religiously following the "fast-and-flat" doctrine , driving relatively lightweight bullets as fast as they possibly can (even factory ammo pushing toward 3000fps in 100gr bullet weights). This path leads to all sorts of gory mess.

I have always found 100gr ProHunters over a modest charge of N160, running somewhere in the region of 2750-2850fps, to be relatively benign in the "oh dear, look at the mess of that" stakes whilst still being quite emphatic in their grounding of Roe.

 

[dropmdead]

If you were closer, you could have tried various 6mm/243 and 6.5mm on the ground out to 250 yards

 

[njc110381]

To be honest, I agree with you to a degree.

Largely because the .243Win seems to be one of those chamberings where people are religiously following the "fast-and-flat" doctrine , driving relatively lightweight bullets as fast as they possibly can (even factory ammo pushing toward 3000fps in 100gr bullet weights). This path leads to all sorts of gory mess.

I have always found 100gr ProHunters over a modest charge of N160, running somewhere in the region of 2750-2850fps, to be relatively benign in the "oh dear, look at the mess of that" stakes whilst still being quite emphatic in their grounding of Roe.

Spot on. I lost my rag with my .243 and sold it before I tried Pro-Hunters. Apparently though a friend of one of my regular shooting mates is using them in his and they're finding similar traits to what you describe. It's just too close to the line for me though. I can pick up any box of 140gr 6.5x55 and go out and whack a deer with them, they'll be fine. Equally for those who think you need to cut the front end off of a deer to kill it humanely, the 100gr-120gr ammo will be a bit harder.

The only time the .243 performed what I would consider to be well was on shots at the longer end of what I like to do, where it had chance to slow down a bit. Unfortunately though my habits are to try to get close enough to slap the deer on the arse before I shoot it. If I can get within 50m then I've had a thoroughly enjoyable stalk. 200m is just culling.

 

[njc110381]

You’ve just thrown a spanner in the works I was all but convinced to go 6.5 until you said that!

The 100gr Nosler is about the most splatty bullet you could possibly pick for the 6.5 without dropping to something designed to fragment in small game, Hornady V-Max for example. Had this fella used a 100gr Barnes TTSX instead I bet he'd have had a much more pleasant experience.

If you're planning to shoot mainly at sub 150m, just zero a 140gr 6.5 bullet an inch high at 100 and it'll be point and shoot. You'll only have to allow for drop if you push out further.

 

[Big Mat]

I shoot all my roe and muntjac with a .308, as well as having a .222.

If i was starting again, knowning what I know now, and with the shooting I, I'd have just bought a 6.5 instead of 2 rifles

 

[PEA]

I have both calibers an do all my deer shooting with the creedmoor using 123sst.