.243 realistic effective max range

[foxinmad]

@mike243, do please completely ignore any comments about marginal and 150yds, whatever the context.

Others have already said what to do, very sound advice, and that is to practice at various ranges to confirm your drops with your chosen ammunition, and then prove your accuracy with the correct holds. If your change ammunition, you should confirm your drops again. Print out a range card in 10m increments, and go test it at random ranges, deer never stand in nice and neat increments of 100m! Follow this advice, and its amazing how quickly you can learn drops, I get my wife to test me when we drive, she'll pick random ranges off the card and I must remember the hold. Good way to memorise, helps build confidence. I use the card and/or the ballistics app in the field anyway, if you've got time on your side then use it to your maximum advantage.

View attachment 124837

I drop test every batch of 100 reloads at 300m, two lots of 5 shots. This fine tunes the ballistics app with the trajectory validation tool. I expect a comfy sub-MOA group at that range on a windless day, or with a very light following wind or headwind, shooting prone.

My .243 has roughly the same MV as Mike's with a 100gr SP. With a 100m zero the Weaver BDC reticle's first tick below the crosshair represents ~200m, second tick ~300m. This is at the max magnification, which is what this scope's SFP reticle (most SFP scopes) is calibrated at. These numbers aren't exact but as near as makes no difference.

With regards to range, I'm not so bothered by energy numbers, more interested in accuracy and ensuring the fragmenting bullet damages the right part of the animal for instant incapacitation or a very fast bleed-out. I know the bullet (Sierra ProHunter) opens up and partially fragments at below 2000fps, and will break bone and traverse the width of the chest cavity, so I am 100% confident that if I put it in the right place, it will kill the animal quickly.

I'm really looking forward to testing the new 90gr ELD-X in the .243 Win, as I expect windage performance to improve quite significantly from what the models say.

Max effective range is somewhat elastic, in that wind will determine confidence in the shot. Shots will be taken in no wind or a light headwind at well over 300m with fast killing outcomes, the proviso being that the point of aim is always well forward in the chest. There's enough written about this critical matter of shot placement not to have to write it all again. Anything 150m or less will likely be shot in the neck assuming the animal is correctly positioned and still.

Shoot the deer with a 6mm bullet behind the shoulder, above the heart in the upper rear lungs, and it will run, probably very far, especially if it penetrates between the ribs.

Crosswinds are tricky and max range is reduced accordingly. If I am after deer, I'll actually work hard to avoid having to shoot across the wind. Remember its very different here as our terrain is mental and winds misbehave big time across gullies, especially up around the head of the gully.

Body weights are very important. If I set out to hunt heavy red stags in the 200kg range, I'll take my .308 for the most part. If I come across one with my .243, and its not a monster but more of a younger animal in the 130-150kg weight range, I'll happily take it if I can guarantee correct point of impact. But 90% of the deer I shoot with my .243 are smaller meat deer, so red hind yearlings and spikers usually, animals in the 80-100kg range. Our reds are quite a lot bigger than UK reds, especially Scottish ones.

So to conclude Mike, the max effective range of the .243 Win & 100gr SP is whatever you are comfortable shooting in the conditions on the day, to a max of around 300m in perfect conditions and assuming that you are well practised at that range and know your drops inside out. And... where to shoot the animal to maximise a fast kill. Which is not a heart shot, because its too easy to be an inch above or behind or even below the heart, with consequent problems. That's what I'm happy with recommending, they fall over readily at 300m with a forward shoulder shot. I've shot lots of deer in the mid-300s with .243 but that's always shooting prone in very high confidence conditions.

On the subject of energy, my view is that whilst more energy is definitely a nice to have, sufficient energy to ensure adequate penetration and correct bullet performance is what is required. I have never been one for demanding my bullets exit the animal and continue their journey into the adjoining county... I far prefer all the action to happen inside the animal and if there is an exit then fine, as long as the bullet has made a big mess on the way through. Correctly positioned lower front lung shots will generate copious blood gushing out of the animals snout, and you won't have any trouble tracking them because they'll be lying very close to where they were shot!

Spot on

 

[devon deer stalker]

I've not shot your small three deer, but with my experience with fallow size up, it's marginal to 150yds. be very selective in your shots. I follow this advice; "You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel I think a 7-08 is perfect for deer. capt david

Some of your American cousins, but I would NOT agree with the shot in the video, of course they could be lying, it might be a 300 win mag!
I use a .243 and 30-06, I limit myself to shots less than 300 yards on deer in the UK.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Heym SR20]

I have shot several hinds out to 200+ with 243 over the years. Does the job but as always choice of bullet and where you put it is critical. I have had better experiences with Norma than RWS 100gn - the latter is quite a soft bullet and have had penetration issues - ie bullet has gone through shoulder put then not caused huge trauma to heart and lungs. I have had a couple with RWS out at 200 plus that have gone down only to get up and then stagger off, but then falling over after another 20 to 50 yards once they run out of blood.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

thanks guys for the advise, it is most helpful

I should have put it in the original question that I was asking about red deer sized animals,

the ammo is hand loaded with 100gn Game Kings, not been chronographed but are a hottish load, rifle is zeroed at 150yds, I wouldn't have thought twice if it had been a roe or muntjac/chinese sized animal, I make no claims about being a master sniper with a super tac driver accurate rifle, but I would say that between me and the gun on a still day like this morning we could achieve somewhere approaching MOA with a steady rest.

I have a .308 which I didn't have with me but would have been happy at that range to get a shot in the right area with a bullet which would do a clean job, it was the fact that they were largeish stags that I was unsure about with the .243 and a heart/lung shot, I don't head shoot or neck shoot, I've seen the consequences of that going wrong and spent 2 days helping find a snoutless roe buck

so with that extra info what sort of ranges would you guys advise for red stags with 100gn ammo for a chest shot

thanks again Mike

With respect, what's the difference between head/neck shooting a deer and doing the same thing with a rabbit or fox? Take your time, know your drops and fire.

 

[stevenedwards]

I have shot stags up to about 175 yards and hinds a little further with Partitions in .243 with one running perhaps 500 yds and needing the dog to find DOA. On examination this was as the result of a little operator error. I have confidence in my equipment, or rather my ability to operate it reliably, inside 200 on farm land Reds. Practice practice practice.

 

[User00033]

With respect, what's the difference between head/neck shooting a deer and doing the same thing with a rabbit or fox? Take your time, know your drops and fire.

Nope. We're not going there again @hendrix's rifle.

Well, it would be an interestingly toxic brew though. You do make a very good point. The 243 on deer, plus head shooting, plus... hmmm... let's see. Black rifles? Brexit? Alt Right? Bow hunting? Trump? Corbyn? Blasers? No, can't do Blasers, already got that in this thread. How about Packham? Yes that's it. The 243, head shooting, Packham. Let's see if we can get the thread locked before page 4.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Nope. We're not going there again @hendrix's rifle.

Well, it would be an interestingly toxic brew though. You do make a very good point. The 243 on deer, plus head shooting, plus... hmmm... let's see. Black rifles? Brexit? Alt Right? Bow hunting? Trump? Corbyn? Blasers? No, can't do Blasers, already got that in this thread. How about Packham? Yes that's it. The 243, head shooting, Packham. Let's see if we can get the thread locked before page 4.

Someone has to say it

 

[.25-06]

I would say you passed one of the greatest tests in shooting, not too shoot beyond your own known limits.

I hope this is the right place to post this

I was hoping you guys would be able to suggest the realistic max range for heart/lung shots with 100gn soft point bullets

I was out this morning and found a group of reds at 225yds, I had my .243 with me, in the end I decided to pass on taking a shot, I've shot a good few reds with it but mostly at probably not more than 100ish yards, I shot a yearling stag last week at 140yds which is the furthest, so far I all the bullets have exited and the deer have never ran too far, I was unsure today weather 225yds was too far

any advise would be very helpful

Mike

 

[Tom D]

It’s worth remembering that as impact velocity drops penetration will increase, up to a point. This is because at lower velocities the bullet will deform less and will not loose so much energy inside the beast. This is the ‘pencil’ wounding that you hear of.

The hardness of the bullet will also be a big factor.
What you want is a large dump of energy inside the animal and just enough left over to give an exit wound. So a soft bullet driven too fast may leave a nasty shallow wound and fail to reach the vitals, and a hard bullet driven too slow may pencil right through without doing much damage.

Your 243 is capable of either scenario. But with the right bullet is should easily be able to drop reds at 300 yds, you will have less margin for error than a larger caliber however. You need to research bullet performance, I don’t have a 6mm so I wouldn’t like to offer suggestions.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

It's interesting to note that in mainland Europe, using a 243 Win on red deer would be frowned on as it is in some places here. Regards JCS

 

[User00003]

I hope this is the right place to post this

I was hoping you guys would be able to suggest the realistic max range for heart/lung shots with 100gn soft point bullets

I was out this morning and found a group of reds at 225yds, I had my .243 with me, in the end I decided to pass on taking a shot, I've shot a good few reds with it but mostly at probably not more than 100ish yards, I shot a yearling stag last week at 140yds which is the furthest, so far I all the bullets have exited and the deer have never ran too far, I was unsure today weather 225yds was too far

any advise would be very helpful

Mike

I have shot a good amount of reds with 243 and 100g bullets, esp partitions and Norma SP.

On stags esp, with H/L shots, dead runs, time to expiry and requirents for follow up shots were unacceptable, and especially on shots over 150yds or so.

Some will disagree, but I stand by my experiences

 

[mike243]

With respect, what's the difference between head/neck shooting a deer and doing the same thing with a rabbit or fox? Take your time, know your drops and fire.

personally I choose not to shoot foxes or rabbits in the head either

Mike

 

[User00003]

@mike243, do please completely ignore any comments about marginal and 150yds, whatever the context.

Others have already said what to do, very sound advice, and that is to practice at various ranges to confirm your drops with your chosen ammunition, and then prove your accuracy with the correct holds. If your change ammunition, you should confirm your drops again. Print out a range card in 10m increments, and go test it at random ranges, deer never stand in nice and neat increments of 100m! Follow this advice, and its amazing how quickly you can learn drops, I get my wife to test me when we drive, she'll pick random ranges off the card and I must remember the hold. Good way to memorise, helps build confidence. I use the card and/or the ballistics app in the field anyway, if you've got time on your side then use it to your maximum advantage.

View attachment 124837

I drop test every batch of 100 reloads at 300m, two lots of 5 shots. This fine tunes the ballistics app with the trajectory validation tool. I expect a comfy sub-MOA group at that range on a windless day, or with a very light following wind or headwind, shooting prone.

My .243 has roughly the same MV as Mike's with a 100gr SP. With a 100m zero the Weaver BDC reticle's first tick below the crosshair represents ~200m, second tick ~300m. This is at the max magnification, which is what this scope's SFP reticle (most SFP scopes) is calibrated at. These numbers aren't exact but as near as makes no difference.

With regards to range, I'm not so bothered by energy numbers, more interested in accuracy and ensuring the fragmenting bullet damages the right part of the animal for instant incapacitation or a very fast bleed-out. I know the bullet (Sierra ProHunter) opens up and partially fragments at below 2000fps, and will break bone and traverse the width of the chest cavity, so I am 100% confident that if I put it in the right place, it will kill the animal quickly.

I'm really looking forward to testing the new 90gr ELD-X in the .243 Win, as I expect windage performance to improve quite significantly from what the models say.

Max effective range is somewhat elastic, in that wind will determine confidence in the shot. Shots will be taken in no wind or a light headwind at well over 300m with fast killing outcomes, the proviso being that the point of aim is always well forward in the chest. There's enough written about this critical matter of shot placement not to have to write it all again. Anything 150m or less will likely be shot in the neck assuming the animal is correctly positioned and still.

Shoot the deer with a 6mm bullet behind the shoulder, above the heart in the upper rear lungs, and it will run, probably very far, especially if it penetrates between the ribs.

Crosswinds are tricky and max range is reduced accordingly. If I am after deer, I'll actually work hard to avoid having to shoot across the wind. Remember its very different here as our terrain is mental and winds misbehave big time across gullies, especially up around the head of the gully.

Body weights are very important. If I set out to hunt heavy red stags in the 200kg range, I'll take my .308 for the most part. If I come across one with my .243, and its not a monster but more of a younger animal in the 130-150kg weight range, I'll happily take it if I can guarantee correct point of impact. But 90% of the deer I shoot with my .243 are smaller meat deer, so red hind yearlings and spikers usually, animals in the 80-100kg range. Our reds are quite a lot bigger than UK reds, especially Scottish ones.

So to conclude Mike, the max effective range of the .243 Win & 100gr SP is whatever you are comfortable shooting in the conditions on the day, to a max of around 300m in perfect conditions and assuming that you are well practised at that range and know your drops inside out. And... where to shoot the animal to maximise a fast kill. Which is not a heart shot, because its too easy to be an inch above or behind or even below the heart, with consequent problems. That's what I'm happy with recommending, they fall over readily at 300m with a forward shoulder shot. I've shot lots of deer in the mid-300s with .243 but that's always shooting prone in very high confidence conditions.

On the subject of energy, my view is that whilst more energy is definitely a nice to have, sufficient energy to ensure adequate penetration and correct bullet performance is what is required. I have never been one for demanding my bullets exit the animal and continue their journey into the adjoining county... I far prefer all the action to happen inside the animal and if there is an exit then fine, as long as the bullet has made a big mess on the way through. Correctly positioned lower front lung shots will generate copious blood gushing out of the animals snout, and you won't have any trouble tracking them because they'll be lying very close to where they were shot!

Where do you shoot?

 

[mike243]

side on heart/lung shots only, maybe slightly quartering

Mike

 

[captdavid]

I limit myself to shots less than 300 yards on deer in the UK.

I have, in the past done the same. In fact I have killed less than 10, at anywhere near 300yds. In fact all have been one shot boiler room shots with the deer dying on or within 30yds of where it was standing. One with a 25-06, 0ne with my 7x57 and the others with my 30-06.
I am 70. Over the last 10 years or so, since retirement, I am basically a doe, and hog meat hunter. I have enough opportunities where I seldom have to take a shot over 150yds, most are 100yds or so. capt david

 

[User00003]

I have, in the past done the same. In fact I have killed less than 10, at anywhere near 300yds. In fact all have been one shot boiler room shots with the deer dying on or within 30yds of where it was standing. One with a 25-06, 0ne with my 7x57 and the others with my 30-06.
I am 70. Over the last 10 years or so, since retirement, I am basically a doe, and hog meat hunter. I have enough opportunities where I seldom have to take a shot over 150yds, most are 100yds or so. capt david

I prefer to get between 10 and 25 yds,,,but people say I'm unethical and cruel for stalking so close and taking shots at those ranges,,...I have had a good number of chances at 100-200yds in the last year, and I've just though,,nah, that's not sporting, I can't shoot and drive home feeling good about that,,the deer needs a chance,,so I stalk up to the point where the deer basically has every chance to clock me and book it,,if it hasn't, I've deserved taking it home..for deer on the Scottish Hill,,,yes, that same deservedness can be at around 100yds, it can be that hard to get into that range on open ground and immense work crawling so close...but I don't think I've ever needed to take a shot at much more than 150yds where I couldn't try to get closer..then, I don't ever 'have to' cull a deer for work purposes,,others would get fired for lack of culling sufficient numbers if they adopted my principles, so I don't deem it 'the' only way to morally take game..

 

[spiker76]

Mike
this thread makes for interesting reading !(Better than a Sunday paper by far) there is lots of sound advice ,and opinions that you could dwell on in it , At the end of the day as the operator ultimately you are the decision maker and decide weather to pull the trigger or not . At the range you asked about and the type of shot placement you mention ,as long as you are confident in your ability and your equipment (.243) you are the only person who can answer your question

your decision not to send it on the mentioned deer shows responsibility as a shooter ,take the factual information and learn from it (especially the bit reference ranges ,bullet drop and practice) this will improve your confidence and decision making when on the ground

Happy shooting

 

[captdavid]

I was unsure today

Ones decision not to shoot is the sign of a good sportsman!

 

[tusker]

Quite honestly the 243 cartridge is much under estimated. it all really depends on the guy behind the rifle. I have seen Red hinds taken at over 300 yards. my son who is a professional stalker has killed deer, Roe to Reds at 450 yards and that's only the ones I know about. I would not attempt to shoot any deer with my 243 at over 300 but that is because of my limitations not the rifle or cartridge. As I have stated in other posts last year an Oryx at 190 yards fell to my 243 stone dead neck shot.
Tusker

 

[ejg]

Shoot a deer larger than a Roe with a 243 in Germany and you loose your hunting licence. In many countries the 243 is the smallest cartridge allowed for the larger deer, if one keeps that in mind, takes a bit extra care with shot placement and bullet choice one should be ok. I have shot a few deer with the 243 but always thought it is a bit on the light side, kept shots under 300m. Like for like shot placement the deer did seem to run a bit further compared to 308 168 bullet, that is why I stopped using a 243 as a main deer rifle. For long range fox I love the 243 and am just planning on putting a 243 together.
edi