308 deer loads
- Thread starter mick b
- Start date
Not a lot of help in the powder dept, but the A-max are the dogs danglers all the way up from .223 52gn to 162gn 7mm. Steve. 8)
The Farmer
Well-Known Member
Why are there so many people using a head designed for paper punching, the a-max, using them for shooting fox and deer when there are so many others that are designed for the job of expanding at the proper rate in said animals?. There is a lot of debate about caliber choice, and having enough gun, but does that really matter if you are not going to use the correct bullets for the job. Maybe it's just me, but that's my thinking on the subject.
Gavin
Gavin
The Farmer said:
Gavin,
in this case it works. Why does one use it?? because it is so accurate.
Bullet design, bullet speed, shot placement and animal size will decide if the bullet performs right, ... not what is written on the box.
The speed of the 308 paired with 155gr a-max and say sika sized deer work very well out to 400yds (maybe more). I avoid shoulder shots with this combination, the bullet is a bit soft for heavy bone at short range. At long range it at least expands. Some other, especially premium bullets can be designed so tough that the bullets do not expand at extended range shot from a slowish 308 and therefore fuel the rumour that the 308 is not a 300yd deer gun.
I don't think a A-max design will work on deer out of every caliber. Used in a very fast cartridge it could be too explosive. Just as a SST can be a bit explosive if driven too fast.
Some game bullets are even softer than A-max.
edi
8x57
Distinguished Member
Quote from Hornady website with regard to A-Max bullets -
" *match bullets are not recommended for hunting medium & large game"
also;
DEER ACT 1991
Schedule 2 - Prohibited firearms and ammunition.
5. Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.
Personally I think that you would find it difficult to defend yourself in court in the unlikely event of a charge being brought against you for using A-Max bullets for deer stalking.
" *match bullets are not recommended for hunting medium & large game"
also;
DEER ACT 1991
Schedule 2 - Prohibited firearms and ammunition.
5. Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.
Personally I think that you would find it difficult to defend yourself in court in the unlikely event of a charge being brought against you for using A-Max bullets for deer stalking.
Sorry if this is sliding sideways a bit, but I have had bullets from the states that have been sold as seconds, purely because they were fitted with the wrong colour tip, now I reckon even csi peeps would struggle to decide what was originally an expanding design in a case like this, if you know that a round gets the job done in a humane manner....? A dead animal recovered within a few yards, mostly drt, best results regarding meat loss, I use what works best, I binned the V-max as utter cr*p for fox & went to Nosler bt's, because they do the job, everytime, Nosler partitions for the 270, because they do the job, not because someone said so, A-max are in use everywhere that I know of, would someone let me know the difference in terminal effect of a Sierra game king & A -max, or a plain hollow point no name?:
Which is Which chaps?
We do tend to get through a bit these days!(& nights 
)
)
8x57
Distinguished Member
finnbear what I said was -
"Personally I think that you would find it difficult to defend yourself in court in the unlikely event of a charge being brought against you for using A-Max bullets for deer stalking."
My aged copy of Deer: Law and Liabilities with reference to the Deer Act 1991 and Deer (Scotland) Act 1996, notes the differences in the various deer acts and the requirements in the various countries and principalities of the U.K.
England and Wales
Bullet must be soft-nosed or hollow nosed.
Scotland
Expanding bullets designed to deform in predictable manner.
Northern Ireland
Expanding bullets designed to deform in predictable manner.
Firearms Law (Home Office publication).
Guidance to police.
13.28 The Deer Acts also require that "soft nosed or hollow nosed" (expanding) ammunition or in the case of Scotland ammunition "designed to deform in a predictable manner" must be used for shooting deer.
They have even gone to the extent of underlining the word must.
I am not suggesting that A-Max, Sierra Match King which is the Sierra equivalent target bullet, or even hard cast bullets won't kill deer.
I am also quite aware of how difficult it is to tell the difference between a V-Max and A-Max bullets visually. What I am saying is that the law is quite clear on the requirements, and for someone to advocate the use of bullets that quite clearly do not comply with these requirements especially on an open forum such as this could be seen as leaving themselves open to prosecution.
I am not forgetting that the use of full metal jacket or non expanding bullets are common place and indeed lawful in many countries, especially for the taking of pelts and birds such as the capercaille. But the evidence from the Hornady website seems fairly clear that A-Max are regarded as match bullets and therefore not designed to expand in a predictable manner, hence other expanding designs by the company.
I think we all have a duty to comply and be seen to comply with the various firearms and deer act laws regardless of how silly some of these laws may appear. Woe betide anyone caught acting outside the law as the loss of your FAC may be only the start of it. In order to protect ourselves and the reputation of our sport we must always demonstrate due dilligence and be wary of others who monitor these websites.
"Personally I think that you would find it difficult to defend yourself in court in the unlikely event of a charge being brought against you for using A-Max bullets for deer stalking."
My aged copy of Deer: Law and Liabilities with reference to the Deer Act 1991 and Deer (Scotland) Act 1996, notes the differences in the various deer acts and the requirements in the various countries and principalities of the U.K.
England and Wales
Bullet must be soft-nosed or hollow nosed.
Scotland
Expanding bullets designed to deform in predictable manner.
Northern Ireland
Expanding bullets designed to deform in predictable manner.
Firearms Law (Home Office publication).
Guidance to police.
13.28 The Deer Acts also require that "soft nosed or hollow nosed" (expanding) ammunition or in the case of Scotland ammunition "designed to deform in a predictable manner" must be used for shooting deer.
They have even gone to the extent of underlining the word must.
I am not suggesting that A-Max, Sierra Match King which is the Sierra equivalent target bullet, or even hard cast bullets won't kill deer.
I am also quite aware of how difficult it is to tell the difference between a V-Max and A-Max bullets visually. What I am saying is that the law is quite clear on the requirements, and for someone to advocate the use of bullets that quite clearly do not comply with these requirements especially on an open forum such as this could be seen as leaving themselves open to prosecution.
I am not forgetting that the use of full metal jacket or non expanding bullets are common place and indeed lawful in many countries, especially for the taking of pelts and birds such as the capercaille. But the evidence from the Hornady website seems fairly clear that A-Max are regarded as match bullets and therefore not designed to expand in a predictable manner, hence other expanding designs by the company.
I think we all have a duty to comply and be seen to comply with the various firearms and deer act laws regardless of how silly some of these laws may appear. Woe betide anyone caught acting outside the law as the loss of your FAC may be only the start of it. In order to protect ourselves and the reputation of our sport we must always demonstrate due dilligence and be wary of others who monitor these websites.
What does the future hold when we are all on Mono metal projectiles? due to the tree huggers protestations! Sintered for Fox? That'll be good, we can all go back to the start & learn reloads all over agi'n 
8x57
Distinguished Member
Mono metal projectiles have certain draw backs and are banned in several countries and in fact have certain restrictions placed on them in this country (M.O.D. ranges). I think that in the next few years the greatest problem will be seen as lead in bullets. In fact there have been several significant environmental "incidents" on military ranges in the U.S.A. leading to temporary closures and restrictions due to the presence of lead, in a country which isn't normally regarded as the most environmentally aware.
Wheel weights on cars used to be lead up until a few years ago. I can see lead in bullets having to be replaced by similar substitues in the next few years. Our biggest problem will be that the U.S. where most of our bullets currently come from will delay adopting the substitute materiels, and we will be left without useable bullets until they get up to speed.
Or alternatively we will have to look to Europe and pay the price because there aren't any sizeable manufacturers in this country as far as I am aware.
Wheel weights on cars used to be lead up until a few years ago. I can see lead in bullets having to be replaced by similar substitues in the next few years. Our biggest problem will be that the U.S. where most of our bullets currently come from will delay adopting the substitute materiels, and we will be left without useable bullets until they get up to speed.
Or alternatively we will have to look to Europe and pay the price because there aren't any sizeable manufacturers in this country as far as I am aware.
I can see future investment in a quality lathe becoming part of the reloading equipment!
I wonder about the future of hunting bullets. The notion that lead will poison the enviroment is maddening but like Global Warming (or is that "Climate Change"??) it's a tree huggers nightmare. I can see bismuth core bullets in the future. There are several companies in the states marketing "green" bullets. The state of California has already imposed a ban on lead bullets and that includes .22's. Idiocy.
I have a full machine shop but luckily, the State I live in hasn't gone green yet and I haven't had to devote shop time to reloading gear other than dies, etal. ~Muir
I have a full machine shop but luckily, the State I live in hasn't gone green yet and I haven't had to devote shop time to reloading gear other than dies, etal. ~Muir
mick b
Well-Known Member
well guys here`s one for you that will put a spanner in the works........
a very well known land operating company who prides itself on the natural beauty of Scotland has told its employee`s to use ballistic tips in the culling of all deer as the so called soft points may put to much lead into the ground and contaminate it....
now this is the most contravening thing i have ever heard,here we have a government agency telling us to use ILLEGAL bullet heads where as you; Joe public have to abide by the other side of the paper
a very well known land operating company who prides itself on the natural beauty of Scotland has told its employee`s to use ballistic tips in the culling of all deer as the so called soft points may put to much lead into the ground and contaminate it....
now this is the most contravening thing i have ever heard,here we have a government agency telling us to use ILLEGAL bullet heads where as you; Joe public have to abide by the other side of the paper
Just a little poke at the embers here , Have just received a restock of Hornady bullets, along with my beloved Partitions , & on the labels affixed to the A-max I read "Accurate,Deadly,Dependable", HMMMNN!, wonder what they mean? 8)
, Have just received a restock of Hornady bullets, along with my beloved Partitions , & on the labels affixed to the A-max I read "Accurate,Deadly,Dependable", HMMMNN!, wonder what they mean? 8)Stand Buck
Well-Known Member
mick b said:well guys here`s one for you that will put a spanner in the works........
a very well known land operating company who prides itself on the natural beauty of Scotland has told its employee`s to use ballistic tips in the culling of all deer as the so called soft points may put to much lead into the ground and contaminate it....
now this is the most contravening thing i have ever heard,here we have a government agency telling us to use ILLEGAL bullet heads where as you; Joe public have to abide by the other side of the paper
Read the Scotish Deer Act they are not illegal if they are using them!
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