6.5x55

[Heym SR20]

Not going to get drawn into the calibre debate, but that's a really useful picture of trajectory of the same bullet over 250 yds.

Couple of observations

Get within 200 yds - stick cross hair on shoulder - squeeze trigger - dead beast.

Once you getting out to 250 yds - range estimation better be good as you only need to be a bit out and you can easily put the bullet below.

But sight in in 1inch high at 100 yds - if it is getting a lot further aim a wee bit higher. Personally 200 yds is getting a bloody long way and a lot of things can and do go wrong at that sort of range.

Also look at the drift - ie how the groups are moving off to the right with increased distance - is that the natural yaw / correolis effect, or was it just windy??

Also mention is made of bullet type - IMHO a lot of 243's so called failings are failing of the bullet rather than the calibre. With a good 100gn deer bullet it will kill most things - but it does need to be quite a well constructed bullet to get the penetration.

I have been using the RWS 100 gn Soft point - it seems to be a very soft bullet and have had a couple fo failings on Red hinds hit on the should rather than just behind - the bullet has blown up and failed to penetrate. Have switched to the Norma 100gn Softpoint as I think it is a bit harder / tougher.

 

[daniel paydar]

The majic of 6,5x55 is in very low recoil and heavy bullets with high sectional density plus good scandinavian ammo
the reality is any caliber from 222 rem upp to the biggest magnum rounds kan kill any animal with well placed shot. i am living in sweden and more than ½ of moose hunters are using 6,5x55, because there are plenty of cheap training ammo from norma and lapua around and at every shooting club the kids are begining to shoot at runing target with 6,5 and when they get their hunting diploma the first gun they are buying is a 6,5x55 with a solid hit at heart -lung area any center fire round can kill a deer or even moose and in this case 6,5x55 is plenty.
cheers
danlei

 

[Muir]

I have an idea for folks with modern 6.5x55s such as CZ, BRNO, Winchester and others rated for high intensity cartridges.

Since a 6.5x55 has more cace capacity then a .260 Remington, why not try carefully working up loads using 260 Remington data? Hodgdon lists top speeds for a 160 gr RN at over 2500 fps and approaching 2600 from a 22" barrel.

The 6.5 is hampered by the weapon it's parented by. The 1896 Swede is a good rifle but not as safe as the later 1898-based designs, therfore the lower pressures for reloading data. This is no different than the 45-70 cartridge: in the original "Trapdoor Springfierld" it's a 14K load. In a Siamese Mauser or a Ruget #1 you can load it to far higher pressures, safely and many reloading sources recognize this.

Maybe it's time to do the same for the 6.5x55? ~Muir

 

[Jagare]

The 6.5x 55 is still vert popular here in Sweden as daneil p says. It is true that the 6,5 x 55 is legal here because it was the old military round and there were are a lot of 6.5x55 rifles around. Also very popular on the range as ammo is cheap and a very good round to learn to shoot with. Don't know of any club round here that has not got a club rifle in 6.5x55.
To my mind moose arn't so tough to shoot but like all animals you must put the bullet in the right place.
Not heard anything about the 30-06 being the minimum calibre for moose though. About as much chance of that happening here as flying to the moon naked. I would not use the 6.5 for boar but thats just me: Its still used to kill the brown bears here every year.
A couple of years ago there was talk of banning all lead in ammo. this would have made the 6.5 illegal as to get the weight in copper bullets would have made them to long to stabalise in calibres less than 7 mm.

 

[Thar]

Hi Muir

I am in agreement with you on this one, with the proviso that the brass is up to the job, remember that brass for WSSM cartridges is far thicker than a case from 308 family despite only having slightly more case capacity, this is to withstand the extra pressure the WSSM cartridges generate. I am not sure if the same is case for the Swede. Was the 6.5X55 case designed with its low maxium operating pressure in mind? I don’t know.

The other thing to remember is that if you push Swede bullets to the same velocity as other more modern calibres then it will not longer have less recoil ect. No free lunches.

You could just get a 6.5- 284 and run it on reduced loads to match the Swede performance and have the best of both worlds with no worries when you want to go with heavy bullets.


ATB

Tahr

 

[Muir]

Hi Thar;
I believe the brass is fine. The Swedes used to proof their rifles at 70K so I'm assuming the brass (as the weak link in the breech/loading chain) is OK as well. The problem with the Swede and all pre-98 designs is the lack of a shield to deflect gasses should a case rupture. I think a Swede safely loaded to 55 K would be fine. It is a very underloaded cartridge, at least here.

I can concede that a 6.5x284 would have more umph! but not everyone is up for the cost of a custom rifle and dies. As for recoil? Hell. I've never noticed recoil in the field. If it's too much when loaded stoutly, get a different rifle, I guess. ~Muir

 

[ejg]

As with anything in engineering, I presume brass manufacturers will add a certain safety factor to the standard pressure of a caliber. So, 6.5x55 brass will again rupture at a lower pressure than higher pressure calibers.
I'd be worried about giving advice to stoke up the loads, is Fed or Privi brass up to it?
The 6.5 does not have a great reputation here and people are selling them left right and center. It generally does not drop em as quick as a faster or a larger and faster caliber. If a deer runs a bit in open ground most don't mind, but if a deer runs 100yds here it can either have crossed a busy road or is on another persons property with all the complications. The bad reputation is mainly down to wrong bullet choice, but... bad bullet choice with a 6.5 leads to bigger disaster than bad bullet choice with a 30-06 .
edi

 

[irishgun]

thats a lot of drop.

long live the king .270

 

[Muir]

As with anything in engineering, I presume brass manufacturers will add a certain safety factor to the standard pressure of a caliber. So, 6.5x55 brass will again rupture at a lower pressure than higher pressure calibers.
I'd be worried about giving advice to stoke up the loads, is Fed or Privi brass up to it?
The 6.5 does not have a great reputation here and people are selling them left right and center. It generally does not drop em as quick as a faster or a larger and faster caliber. If a deer runs a bit in open ground most don't mind, but if a deer runs 100yds here it can either have crossed a busy road or is on another persons property with all the complications. The bad reputation is mainly down to wrong bullet choice, but... bad bullet choice with a 6.5 leads to bigger disaster than bad bullet choice with a 30-06 .
edi

The 6,5x55 is loaded to pressures rated about 5% higher than the 22 Hornet. Ever saw one of those cases in half? Yikes! Skinny stuff. As I have said, the original swede rifles were fired at 70K pressures using the brass of the day. I doubt if they have reduced the brass thickness over the last 110 years. If you saw a Federal 308 case lengthwise and a Federal 6.5x55 case lengthwise I'm sure you will find negligible difference. I have no experience with PRVTI. Back in the 1980's Norma was loading the Swede to 50K+ including a 156 grain load that was doing over 2600 fps from a 22" barrel. Ken Waters of "Handloader Magazine" wrote in his series "Pet Loads" about his tests involving the 6.5x55 showed that the cartridge was easily augmented through CAREFULL handloading. He did divide his loads into those safe for modern 6,5x55's and those suitable for only the Swedes and the lesser strength Norwegian Krags.

I agree, a bigger hole = increased chance of dropping the game quickly but bad bullet choice with a 30-06 will result in run-offs, as will poor marksmanship with any caliber. How many of these 6.5's are being swapped in for .260's?? Same bullet choices. Maybe folks should shy away from Nosler Partitions when the quarry is an 80 pound deer?

My son will be hunting mule deer this coming weekend with a Winchester 6.5x55 using 129 grain bullets. I'll let you know how it turns out. I am peg legged due to some undercarriage work so I'll be using my trim 8x57J and lead bullets. ~Muir

 

[ejg]

Muir, no matter what.. I think the 6.5x55 is a bit of an experts caliber. The beginner can very easily choose the wrong ammo or not place the shot as accurately as needed. Therefore I would not recomend this caliber. The 30-06, 308 and 270win have a bit more margin for error.
I would also not recommend a 22-250 for deer and yet have shot sika with one. Other rules apply if one uses a marginal caliber, no free hand shots and so on.
Now your 8x57 will take things down well. Never understood where the J came from? 8x57I as I've seen it, the I stands for Infanterie. Is the J maybe for Jagd= hunt?

edi

 

[glogin]

Now your 8x57 will take things down well. Never understood where the J came from? 8x57I as I've seen it, the I stands for Infanterie. Is the J maybe for Jagd= hunt?

edi

" Amazingly, the "J" in the name originated with confusion over the word "Infanterie" in German documents describing the military version of this cartridge. English speaking translators mistook the Gothic stylized "I" for a "J". (This interesting situation is discussed in some detail in recent editions of Cartridges of the World.) "

http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=59&Lang=2&DocumentID=295&Submeny=4&Rubrik=Calibers&Title=8x57 JS

 

[Chris Rob]

Now your 8x57 will take things down well. Never understood where the J came from? 8x57I as I've seen it, the I stands for Infanterie. Is the J maybe for Jagd= hunt?

edi

Hi Edi

I always thought there were 3 versions of the 8x57 Mauser round. The one commonly referred to as the 8x57J with the "J" suffix indicating infantry, the 8x57JS with the S meaning Spitzgeschoss (spitzer) & the 8x57JRS with the R standing for rimmed as this round was designed for double rifles & drilling's.

ATB
Chris

 

[Muir]

EJG: I guess you could be right about the 6.5. Many folks need horsepower to compensate for abilities. It's a damned sad state, too, when you consider that almost every one has access to a .22 rifle with which to practice off hand shooting.

The "J" was a mis read on "I" but for practical purposes, designates a .318" bullet. These rifles generally have a .320" groove diameter. The "JS" is (depending on your sources) a .323" bullet with a corresponding groove diameter.

My "J-Bore" is a C.G. Haenel factory sporter from the early 1900's. It's a real veteran but plans changed last night when I couldn't locate the charger clips needed to feed the rifle. Until I find them, I'm using a 1899 Enfield 303 Express rifle. I have some 174 grain Hornady RN over a charge of 4350 that shoot as good as I can hold. Should work.

My brother dropped a 5x5 Whitetail in the 170 pound class yesterday using his 7x57 custom Mauser and I bring this up to illustrate a point: for a while he was certain that the bonded core, partition, or otherwise fortified bullets were the only way to go. His certainty was based on ads, and other hunters. He instantly noted an increase in intances where he had to track his well-hit deer. He finally reverted back to a plain 145 grain Speer Spitzer I throated the rifle for and started enjoying clean kills again. This bullet is a lead tipped, plain copper jacketed bullet designed to work at 7x57 velocities: The proper bullet for the game and the cartridge.~Muir

 

[ejg]

Thanks, Chris, Glogin
just as I thought with the J, I never found a J in my German reload and ammo books.

Muir,
saw an add of the new all gilding metall hornady ammo gmx. These bullets seem to be extremely tough and only expand decently at the 3400fps speed picture. Wonder how much further they want to push it, some FMJ's might have more expantion. I use 80gr sierra varminters in a 243 for foxes at the moment, the name would suggest explosive behaviour which is not the case. The bullet just about always exits front to back on a fox. On a sika stag the bullet made it to the opposite side under the hide and had over 50% weight after breaking ribs on both sides.
Bullet choice and testing is important.
Enjoy the 303, as a kid I watched the farmers shoot kudu with them. It did the job.
edi

 

[Dalua]

Thanks, Chris, Glogin
just as I thought with the J, I never found a J in my German reload and ammo books.

It is in my NueBlein (late 70s/early 80s) , interestingly; although it is not explained.

 

[Muir]

Thanks, Chris, Glogin
just as I thought with the J, I never found a J in my German reload and ammo books.

Muir,
saw an add of the new all gilding metall hornady ammo gmx. These bullets seem to be extremely tough and only expand decently at the 3400fps speed picture. Wonder how much further they want to push it, some FMJ's might have more expantion. I use 80gr sierra varminters in a 243 for foxes at the moment, the name would suggest explosive behaviour which is not the case. The bullet just about always exits front to back on a fox. On a sika stag the bullet made it to the opposite side under the hide and had over 50% weight after breaking ribs on both sides.
Bullet choice and testing is important.
Enjoy the 303, as a kid I watched the farmers shoot kudu with them. It did the job.
edi

Ejg: It is alarming that the bullet makers continue this trend toward heavier-constructed bullets. Every bullet advertisment seems to be appealing to the readers testosterone levels (sorry ladies) instead of common sense. Of course, if they can convince you to by a "structured" bullet instead of a plain jacketed lead bullet they make more money. You'd think a not a single head of game fell to a rifle before the Nosler Partition!

I had a talk with a rancher/farmer friend of mine last night over coffee. He has contol over vast tracts of land (his prairiedog town is 1800 sq/acres alone) that is host to elk, antelope, mule deer and whitetail deer. HE shoots a lot of deer annnually and aside from this, is quite a bench shooter and gun collector. When I told him of the 6.5x55 "discussion" he simply said that people everywhere are using too much gun coupled with too much bullet. He uses a 30-30 as his "truck gun" commenting that nothing drops a whitetail faster than a 30-30 with a 170 grain soft cast bullet. This guy has more firearms than I do (which is hard to visualize) and buys powder and primers by the case but won't waste a dime on a structurally enhanced bullet for deer. Go figure.... ~Muir

 

[MrYou]

After recently buying a swede 6.5, after a few years without, i would never go back to a meat wasting 270,308, totally unessacary..the 6.5 will do all from jackal to large deer & more, i took one to africa a couple of years ago..superb !!

If there is one rifle calibre that should not be over looked its the 6.5x55, for ranges to 1000yds +. It is fantastic FULL STOP.

IMo 243 is a entry calibre in the Uk, bad traj, over weighted, lacking that punch you may need, ok for fox, as for deer past 100yds..243 is a rooky rifle, 270 noisy, 308 recoil & meat waste issues.

You can reload a 6.5 to pin point accuracy with the correctly maintained rifle.

 

[Thar]

MrYou

Now you have upset probability over 75% of the rifle uses on the site with your second post, do you think you are the only one to have used the 3 calibres you mention?

Do you have any subjective ballistic data to back your statement? Or is all your evidence for the 6.5X55 supposed superior performance purely anecdotal?

You might do well to read some of the old 6.5X55 posts before you answer (it might take you some time ). We have debated the merits of the calibre many times and don’t want to waste any more time on it, unless you can bring something new to forum.

Best rgds

Tahr

 

[JC275]

MrYou might be right, maybe the .243 is rubbish after all. Looking back at my cull records, I have shot 196 deer with mine since the start of the buck season in August and have had to shoot 7 of them twice! If only I had used something better. JC

 

[MrYou]

MrYou

Now you have upset probability over 75% of the rifle uses on the site with your second post, do you think you are the only one to have used the 3 calibres you mention?

Do you have any subjective ballistic data to back your statement? Or is all your evidence for the 6.5X55 supposed superior performance purely anecdotal?

You might do well to read some of the old 6.5X55 posts before you answer (it might take you some time ). We have debated the merits of the calibre many times and don’t want to waste any more time on it, unless you can bring something new to forum.

Best rgds

Tahr

Thats my opinion,(IMO)

How you take it (on cheek or nose) it totally upto you

Dont for one tik think the 243 is a light round, as you know, it can do serious damage, but i would not put it on pigs or out to 150yds+ on anything, unless a dedicated rifle. .. Tor my uses 6.5 or 8mm. Thank you