7x64 Brenneke long freebore and copper bullets

[Nkawu]

Good afternoon all,
I had an interesting conversation with a prominent gunsmith in Rugby about my plans to rebarrel a rifle to 7x64. He said if it was his rifle he would go with the 280 rem instead because the 7x64 has such a long throat and was designed for performance and not necessarily accuracy. My understanding of this is that the long freebore in the 7x64 means that conventional (lead) bullets can't be seated close to the lands. I believe the 280 has a much shorter freebore.
My thinking is that a long freebore would be beneficial with the trend towards copper bullets. Capacity wouldn't be taken up in the case with the longer monolithic's like Peregrine or Barnes and the bullet would be seated a bit closer to the lands. I know from my 308 that copper bullets do like a bit of a jump, so I still should have some space in the 7x64 vs the 280. I have been thinking of using 160 grain copper monolithics as a general purpose hunting and plinking round. I plan to rebarrel a Winchester M70 and have a spare magazine box with the spacer removed if magazine length becomes the limiting factor. I know the 280 AI is very popular but at this stage, it is not something I am considering.
Does anyone have any insight into long-throated designs and monolithic bullets?

Thanks.

 

[jb7x57]

I use a 7x64 go for it brilliant all round calibre
I use 140 grn Sierra and it shoots excellent looking to go to 120 grn copper soon

 

[r judd]

Excellent calibre. Had a t3 in 7x64 was very accurate. Had it rebarreled again in 7x64 and very accurate. Shooting 120gr tsx and now ttsx.
Go for it

 

[r judd]

Dont really understand the not designed for accuracy bit

 

[Paul 600]

How are you guys finding the 120 grain NLA?

 

[r judd]

Used them for 10 years. They work. Not getting into everything about em.

 

[25 Sharps]

Good afternoon all,
I had an interesting conversation with a prominent gunsmith in Rugby about my plans to rebarrel a rifle to 7x64. He said if it was his rifle he would go with the 280 rem instead because the 7x64 has such a long throat and was designed for performance and not necessarily accuracy. My understanding of this is that the long freebore in the 7x64 means that conventional (lead) bullets can't be seated close to the lands. I believe the 280 has a much shorter freebore.
My thinking is that a long freebore would be beneficial with the trend towards copper bullets. Capacity wouldn't be taken up in the case with the longer monolithic's like Peregrine or Barnes and the bullet would be seated a bit closer to the lands. I know from my 308 that copper bullets do like a bit of a jump, so I still should have some space in the 7x64 vs the 280. I have been thinking of using 160 grain copper monolithics as a general purpose hunting and plinking round. I plan to rebarrel a Winchester M70 and have a spare magazine box with the spacer removed if magazine length becomes the limiting factor. I know the 280 AI is very popular but at this stage, it is not something I am considering.
Does anyone have any insight into long-throated designs and monolithic bullets?

Thanks.

How long is the magazine in your rifle? That may be more likely the limiting factor. With my .280 and 126 gr TLR I have over 100 thou more jump than with the straight hollow point yew tree, just to fit them in the mag.

Both are excellent bullets but I am sticking with the HP now, cheaper and the BC gets me out to 350 yards, have had good expansion out to 320.

You don’t have to be near the lands for good accuracy.

 

[25 Sharps]

Dont really understand the not designed for accuracy bit

Does seem an odd comment!

 

[Paul 600]

What sort of velocity are you getting?

Used them for 10 years. They work. Not getting into everything about emWhat sort at

 

[Cranhill]

I’ve had some odd comments from a gunsmith in Rugby over the years.

 

[Kalahari]

Dont really understand the not designed for accuracy bit

Couldn't agree more, part of Brenneke's idea with the design was that it would be adopted by the german army as a sniper rifle. So it was actually seriously designed for accuracy.

David.

 

[Nkawu]

Thanks for the replies so far. I must say I also thought the comments on performance vs accuracy were odd. I am still set on the 7x64.

 

[r judd]

What sort of velocity are you getting?

3200+ from a 24” barrel

 

[Heym SR20]

I use the 7x65R - the rimmed version. Its a fast twist 1 in 8” and will stabilise the long 173 Brenneke type bullets. One of the reason for the cone shaped bullets in lighter weights was to take up some of this freebore. I used the 173 gn H-Mantle over 50gn of IMR 4350 and well within an inch type accuracy.

Copper bullets seem to like freebore and don’t like being close to the lands. In mine I am currently using a 140 RWS HIT bullet. I have also loaded and used the 150gn Fox and they shot well - didn’t really develop the load, simply loaded up some with 50gn of IMR4350. Checked zero and they shot well enough and went hunting. I was driven boar hunting so long range not needed.

 

[webley701]

Nkawu,
Whatever the real or imagined attributes of the 280 Rem may be - the 7x64 is a superb sporting cartridge & you can’t go wrong with it (nor with the 280 for that matter).

Your thought about the 7x64 perhaps being more suitable for the longer monolithic projectiles has merit & given that otherwise there‘s so little difference between the two cartridges I’d perhaps let that extra utility regarding monolithics push me in the direction of the 7x64.

 

[1894]

Personally I’d question the 160gr bullet part.
That aside I’d lend some credence to Norman’s view. 280reamer dimensions are probably a bit more up to date. In a sporter it probably makes little odds and is more down to where you intend to shoot. If on the continent then 7x64 is a no brainer.

 

[viking90]

I wouldn't worry about free bore....I can literally drop a projectile into the chamber followed by a fully resized piece of brass and close the bolt into battery. I can then eject the brass and the bullet isn't stuck in the case lol. It still shoots fine

 

[Paul 600]

W

3200+ from a 24” barrel

What’s your load please.

Many thanks!

 

[Heym SR20]

Just pottering and found an old test target. Heres my 7x65r testing in double rifle format. 173gn H Mantles - bottom barrel then top barrel, then let cooled between pairs. Also shown is the 145gn Fox. The H Mantle is the Copper tipped bullet with rounded nose, Fox is the Cone Point. Also bullets shown so you can see the length. I could seat both a lot longer, but working to standard COAL.

And for scale, the cases are 65mm long.

 

[enfieldspares]

Personally I’d question the 160gr bullet part.
That aside I’d lend some credence to Norman’s view. 280reamer dimensions are probably a bit more up to date. In a sporter it probably makes little odds and is more down to where you intend to shoot. If on the continent then 7x64 is a no brainer.

Yes. I've owned both a .280 Remington and a 7x64 rifle. The .280 Remington was a Belgian made on an ex-Nazi Mauser 98 action. Once upon a time the .280 Remington was popular in France and Belgium as it was as near to .30-06 as you could get at the time when rifles capable of chambering military ammunition were there prohibited. The reason also for the otherwise unexplainable popularity of the .300 Winchester Magnum in France and Belgium.

For me the .280 Remington is the "better" cartridge. It is a more modern design. The same with 6mm Remington vs .243 Winchester. But like Betamax and VHS what's the better quality "mousetrap" isn't necessarily the end of the argument as quantity also has a quality all of its own. The large number of rifles in 7x64 versus the much fewer number of rifles (and so off the shelf cartridges....although .280 Remington will still be stocked in France and Belgium) in 7x64 makes it possibly a better choice.

I can see where Norman is coming from and I'd agree with him. If it's only ever for use where you can be certain you've your own cartridges it's absolutely, .280 Remington, what I'd choose. Not 7x64. My advice is let that be your guide and FWIW if you do choose .280 Remington then I'd advise the standard cartridge not the Ackley nor anybody else's improved version. And a single "go to" loading of a 160 or 165 grain bullet elsewise you might as well use a .270 Winchester.