A couple of things puzzling me.

[JeffreyL]

Many years ago Red Stag stalking in Scotland waited for nearly an hour laying down in the rain looking at a stag about 80-100 yards away lying down. Shooter decided why not make a “ noise” to get it to stand up, cue attempt at Stag roar, effect Stag kept to its feet and ran through about 3 glens before looking back. Seemed like a good plan while lying in the rain

Had a similar experience many years ago. Got into a good position with the stag lying down, I said to the stalker ‘I can hit that’ , ‘no’he said, he’ll stand up. The water is running in the top of my clothes and out of the bottom and apparently the same for the stalker because after about 20 minutes he said ‘ are you sure you can hit that’, ‘yes’.
That also seemed like a good plan while lying in the rain.

 

[baguio]

Because people want to see the animal being shot as if they're behind the trigger and the professional wants to encourage shooting IAW best practice. Shooting into a tangle of branches or a deer lying will not show that. In reality they all take every opportunity they get and could easily shoot it in the nut but they will go loads of criticism for doing that and it's just not worth the agro for them.

 

[3red dogs]

VSS
What are you asking ?
You said that the deer was indistinct with binos or scope , so why did you shoot it?
Lots of bright sparks talking about head and neck shots.
Only head shots are full frontal or full behind .
Once you have shot the jaw off a deer you will never forget it.
Take advice from DSC 2 . Chest only

 

[VSS]

VSS
What are you asking ?

I thought that was pretty obvious, but I'll repeat it for you: I was wondering why folk don't shoot deer which are lying down, or when partially obscured. Is it just on camera, or is it general practice to avoid taking these shots, and if so why?

You said that the deer was indistinct with binos or scope , so why did you shoot it?

Because I could distinctly see the part of the deer into which I wanted to place my bullet. Which is the only part of the animal that it's necessary to be able to see clearly. Hence my question.

Lots of bright sparks talking about head and neck shots.

Head shots are nothing to do with my original question. They've only crept into the discussion because one of the examples I gave happened to be a headshot. I needn't have mentioned it.

.
Only head shots are full frontal or full behind .

Agreed.

Take advice from DSC 2 . Chest only

Does DSC2 have "chest only" rule? I wasn't aware of that.

 

[David Barker]

I like to watch my deer move and make sure they are what i want for the freezer. When a deer is couched i find it very difficult to make good judgements to its condition. That said if i am watching a deer and it decides to couch up i will certainly shoot it.

 

[Ratel]

If they are in the right position lying down shoot them. If it's too far to be totally confident of a neck or head shot be careful and make sure it's not lying on its side. Shoot one laid like that and it's either a spine or gut shot, they need to be lying broadside as if you had chopped their legs off. Just my HO.

 

[VSS]

I like to watch my deer move and make sure they are what i want for the freezer. When a deer is couched i find it very difficult to make good judgements to its condition. That said if i am watching a deer and it decides to couch up i will certainly shoot it.

That's a very valid point, and one that had already crossed my mind. A deer lying down, or partially obscured, may well be a sick animal. Difficult to certify that the animal showed no signs of abnormality prior to taking the shot if you haven't seen it stand and move.

 

[opticron1]

That's a very valid point, and one that had already crossed my mind. A deer lying down, or partially obscured, may well be a sick animal. Difficult to certify that the animal showed no signs of abnormality prior to taking the shot if you haven't seen it stand and move.

I think you've just answered your own question Tim..... I was always taught to watch the behaviour of a Deer prior to shooting it, to make sure there are/were no obvious physical problems (if it is going for human consumption). You can't judge that if you come across a couched deer.
Obviously if you watch a deer for a while and see it is an appropriate animal then it is an easier decision to shoot either standing or lying. I just prefer seeing an animal standing before taking a shot - personal preference.

 

[baguio]

I shoot lots of laying down muntjac. If it's couched up asleep or chewing the cud I would consider that natural behaviour for a deer anyway. If it passes the lymph node inspection it's good to go. I do sadly discard a few muntjac in the brambles these days but don't remember every shooting one in poor condition. Even ones with missing legs are healthy.

 

[VSS]

I think you've just answered your own question Tim..... I was always taught to watch the behaviour of a Deer prior to shooting it, to make sure there are/were no obvious physical problems (if it is going for human consumption). You can't judge that if you come across a couched deer.
Obviously if you watch a deer for a while and see it is an appropriate animal then it is an easier decision to shoot either standing or lying. I just prefer seeing an animal standing before taking a shot - personal preference.

But for some stalkers, having the time to do that is a luxury they don't have, I would assume? If someone's got a challenging cull target to meet, let's say 500 deer per year, then they wouldn't have much hope of achieving that if they waited for every animal to be standing, broadside, clear of cover.

Are recreational stalkers perhaps setting themselves unnecessary hindrances to achieving effective deer management on the ground that they hold?

 

[opticron1]

Yep, fully accept that, as a mere amateur I am in no rush and thankfully don't have a set cull number to achieve. I would be a different ball game (for me) if I was employed to cull a set number of animals or was protecting crops/plantations etc.
Added to all that, my shooting is quite limited so I'm not confident about going for head/neck shots as a first option.

 

[paulbshooting]

I am by no means a pro stalker but am out 4 to 5 times a week. I stalk on prime arable ground and all the land owners whilst not anti deer, want deer numbers controlled. I do shoot couched deer if needed as need to keep momentum on culling and need venison for my small business. Most of what I shot is off sticks and chest shot but do neck and head if stable and very close range.

 

[gelert]

Cant see any merit in shooting a deer partially obscured at a 180yrds,other than if I knew the deer was injured and required an immediate follow up shot. Shooting deer lying down has always been a debated topic, especially if the deer was most likely asleep or chewing the cud, or may have been injured. I have seen people refuse to shoot a deer lying down as they felt it was unsporting, while I've also shot primarily CWD lying down just before they get up and leg it.

 

[devon deer stalker]

while I've also shot primarily CWD lying down just before they get up and leg it.

Absolutely, it was behaviour I had never experienced before....at least the roe often stop and look back

 

[VSS]

Cant see any merit in shooting a deer partially obscured at a 180yrds,other than if I knew the deer was injured and required an immediate follow up shot.

But would you be happy shooting a deer at 180yds if you could see the whole of the animal, not just the target area of the animal?
And if so, what is the benefit of being able to see, for example, the hind legs, tail or ears of a deer that you're intending to shoot in the chest?

 

[gelert]

But would you be happy shooting a deer at 180yds if you could see the whole of the animal, not just the target area of the animal?
And if so, what is the benefit of being able to see, for example, the hind legs, tail or ears of a deer that you're intending to shoot in the chest?

Most definitely, for one thing how could you tell if there was another deer behind next to or in front or the partially obscured one?

 

[VSS]

Most definitely, for one thing how could you tell if there was another deer behind next to or in front or the partially obscured one?

Thermal maybe?

 

[gelert]

Thermal maybe?

Thermal wont always pick up through thick grass or foliage, and not everyone has that afforded luxury.

 

[baguio]

Thermal wont always pick up through thick grass or foliage, and not everyone has that afforded luxury.

Oh come on gelert. VSS hasn't said how thick the cover was. Surely you can imagine cover thick enough to partially obscure the deer such as a fallen branch in the winter but not too thick that a second deer would be invisible. Perhaps they're laid up on the opposite bank across a valley? I can certainly imagine the case as I'm in that position quite often. Get out and shoot some deer and you will soon be in the same position yourself.
Also, no one is forcing anyone to take any shot. If you're not happy to take the shot then it's simple, don't! We all have different equipment, different eyes and different ability. One size does not fit all and never will when it comes to shooting.

 

[gelert]

Oh come on gelert. VSS hasn't said how thick the cover was. Surely you can imagine cover thick enough to partially obscure the deer such as a fallen branch in the winter but not too thick that a second deer would be invisible. Perhaps they're laid up on the opposite bank across a valley? I can certainly imagine the case as I'm in that position quite often. Get out and shoot some deer and you will soon be in the same position yourself.
Also, no one is forcing anyone to take any shot. If you're not happy to take the shot then it's simple, don't! We all have different equipment, different eyes and different ability. One size does not fit all and never will when it comes to shooting.

I have yet to meet any stalker who hasn't cocked up at some stage, myself included.