Advice/thoughts on this mix...

[Abbey]

Just to give a bit of background - my husband goes rough shooting - we have a Wire Vizsla who is very good at pointing/flushing/retrieving but she has become very gun shy due to an incident (not by us) on a local shoot.

We have heard about a pup who is a GWP/Springer x Brittany - would this mix, with training be suitable for a rough shooter. He has no intention to do field trials etc.

Would just appreciate any thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[stalkinginengland]

Hello

I would not touch it with a barge pole unless you like a challenge. My thoughts are "Hell on earth".

Mark

 

[6pointer]

That Mix I would think needs a lot of work all the breeds in that x are very pushy to say the least why not fix the gun shyness in the HWV can be that bad for stalking .

 

[stalkinginengland]

Yes 6 pointer is right there only you know how bad it is but why not try walking the HWV from say 3 miles away from a clay shoot towards it. A little at a time and a little encouragement might do the trick after a concerted effort.

Plenty of clay shoots this time of year.

Mark

 

[Abbey]

We've tried everything you have suggested and more with the Wire - but her fear is such that she just collapses on the ground - even the sight of a gunslip is enough to turn her into her slavering wreck. We want to get in another young dog - and i think after your comments and those of others that we will leave this mix well alone and concentrate on finding another Vizsla. Thanks for your comments.

 

[mudman]

Waht happened to make her so gun shy ?

 

[simon db]

If your dog is this badly affected you will struggle to ever fully cure her.I have a 4 month old GWP dog for sale if you are interested.He is a lovely strong liver and white pup from an extremely well bred litter.Both parents work and have low hip scores and are dna tested clear for Vwb disease.He has had all his vaccinations and been regularly wormed and treated with frontline.I would let him go for a sensible price to a good working home.Pm me if you are intersted.
simon b.

 

[Abbey]

On a shoot and we had just unloaded dogs from the car - the shoot hadnt begun when a guy decided to open fire - she literally hit the ground and was stiff with fear - he was very, very close to her. Arsehole. We tried to carry on but that day was lost...we have tried everything with her. Added to this, she has a condition (anal furunculosis) which is thought to be aggravated by stress - hence the reason that stressing her anymore is not a good idea.

I've just spoken to the guy with the above mentioned x - he tells me that he shoots and that he uses them in all aspects of HPR work and that the only problem he has with them is that they are very 'soft' (his words) and that training and encouragement need to be softy, softly.

Not perhaps what i imagined from this mix?

Simon - pup sounds lovely, but its a bitch we are after - thank you anyway.

 

[simon db]

Ok.Thanks for reply.Hope you find a nice pup.
simon b.

 

[6pointer]

I think that the chaps do will be the exception to the rule. Shame about the wire just becarefull it dont pass on to your new pup.Alot of times pups look round to see what the reaction is round them to sounds and sights before deciding about danger. But you can fix your dog with a little bit of work it might not be a gun dog but will make a good stalking dog you will need to get it to thinking that guns gun bags are good not bad. My MATE HAD A DOG LIKE YOURS THAT WOULD HIDE EVEN IF THE GUN WAS BROUGHT OUT. IT TOOK A WHILE BUT GOOD FAMILIARISATION WORKED. EG FED ON GUN BAGS NEXT TO GUNS PLAYING WITH TOYS ROUND THE SHOOTING EQUIPMENT ONLY USEING THE RIFLE IF THERE IS A DEAD CERT KILL ETC LOTS OF DIFERNT STUFF. IF ALL THAT FAILS THEN START ON THE NEW DOG IDEA THE PUP WILL TAKE LONGER TO TRAIN THAN AN ALREADY TRAINED DOG.

 

[stone]

Abbey
Exactly how old is your dog and how much training had you really done before the incident occurred??
As what your dog may be experiencing might not be gun shyness, but situation shyness
there is a difference
by trying everything in the book to remedy gunshyness just makes the situation for the dog worse and leaves you with a dog that is not scared but stressed, even with out the gun present whilst doing the basics to combat gunshyness
such as walking near clay shoots or playing with dummies
you may need to start a different training regime to de-stress the dog whilst still training it to work in the field

kick about with a tennis ball is a good method to start with.. teaches the dog to play in a retrieving situ where lots of noise can be made as you build up the dogs confidence once more over time and this is a time thing
as you feel confident bring in a stick to hit the tennis ball with for the dog to retrieve which is then transferred to a shotgun being carried out with you
at no time in this training should you attempt to shoot over, near or duplicate shooting noises untill the dog is happy then you need to introduce this in a different way
there are a few different ways

I've in the past used a metal wheel cover to throw the tennis ball or dead bird on or near to just enough to make a noise
Helps the dog become aware and more confident , before progressing to shooting over the dog with a 22 rimfire with sound mod on
aim is to shoot a rabbit or pigeon and just let the dog run in or leave the dog to venture out with out it being hassled just encouraged gently on with praise
I admit I hav not used this method on a WH but on occassions with springers and labs in the past and got good results
this is just a simple method that is easy to implement and can be done anywhere within reason

 

[Abbey]

Hi thank you for your replies, she is now 7y 6m - she began going to HPR training at about 8m old. Up until this point she had been encouraged to bring back a ball/dummy etc. She had been out with a handler and my husband on a regular basis until this incident happened...she was always steady and very focused - the only 'problem' that we ever had experienced with her before the gun incident was that she could have ranged a bit further whilst hunting but everything else was fine - she has a very soft mouth and always brought the game back undamaged, she was slightly unsure of runners and would often need to be encouraged..aside from that she was fine. We put a lot of time and effort into her training which is what makes the incident with the gun really gutting. I also find it very hard to see her so unnerved and freaked out.

She still very much enjoys grouse counts, picking up but even the bird scarer we had in the field next to the house this spring left her pacing and slavering. She now also hates fireworks which she never bothered about before.

 

[Dickyboy]

I would be very careful about getting a new pup with your current dog the way it is.....if she was not originally gun shy then it is gun nervousness(to distinguish) gunshy dogs tend to be shy from birth or genetic. If it has come about from an experience call it nervousness then she should be curable to an extent or at least enough so as not to pass it on to a pup.

I have never been a fan of going to clay grounds, its not fun and there is lots of bangs and echos, try doing an activity she loves and then someone a long way off shoot and slowly get closer.

Have no reaction to the shots whether she does or not just pretend it never happened.

I took my gunnervous cocker beating and now she loves the sound of guns as she gets to find pheasys!!!

She may never be keen on them but at least you will be able to bring on a new pup without it being ruined by her nerves.

Personally I would not have another dog until your current one has passed away, it seems to lack confidence on the whole, needing encouragement for runners, as runners should evoke the chase instinct and therefore more confidence, unless she was under socialised. These things WILL pass onto your new pup, and the cycle will continue.