Approved witness payment

[Bowland blades]

That's because the vast majority are not full time deer stalkers, and no doubt their experience is limited in many cases. Looking at companies house there seems to be only one on the board who is employed in deer management.

Utterly pathetic and useless , like the qual itself has become ! I don't think BASC getting their fingers in the pie helped

 

[Ratcatcher]

The pest control industry is heading in exactly the same direction, I now find myself having to complete 20pts CPD each year including 3 separate rodent courses, ordered by the very people who now charge, or surely will do, for the privilege! So I have,with 40 years experience, to listen to some graduate, with a lovely suit no doubt tell me that a rat is brown, or a deer eats grass

 

[nun_hunter]

I totally understand the comparison with doctors and other professional bodies. But as I said earlier, those bodies provide considerable support to their members. I have absolutely no problem paying a subscription fee to a professional body if they provide something in return.

However, DMQ currently do nothing for AWs. They have identified where an organisation can exert near complete control over progression in the sector, and have seized it. They make money from candidates and use the free labour of AWs to do so.

So in that sense it is NOTHING like doctors. Even when you see a private GP, you do not pay the BMC for the privilege - you pay the GP!

As I said: it is the equivalent of an exam board charging both the candidates for taking an exam and the teachers for teaching. It is nothing short of a scam.

I suppose the simplest comparison would be with driving testers. Who do they pay to remain as a tester? And what proportion of the test fee goes to them versus DVLA versus the professional body?

Thanks for taking the time to explain. It does make more sense and I can understand why people don't want to be an AW now more than ever.

I suppose it comes down to either wanting to volunteer your time for free for the satisfaction of doing so or if you want something else in return from DMQ.

I don't mind helping people or organisations I believe in but wouldn't do it for free if I didn't believe in the cause or person I was directly helping.

 

[Donkey Basher]

That's because the vast majority are not full time deer stalkers, and no doubt their experience is limited in many cases. Looking at companies house there seems to be only one on the board who is employed in deer management.

Some interesting names on that list - several I recognise including a number of lecturers at a local agricultural college & one who very graciously ‘stole’ ground that I was in discussion over & added it to his already unmanageable (for a single stalker) land bank of ground!

I’ve read this whole thread & there are valid points being raised on both sides.

If DMQ want to charge AWs for what is to all intents CPD then they need to look at their business model as if they were an ‘employer’. They already pay assessors for their work, so should also pay AWs for theirs, or at the very least have a policy of paying expenses to those wanting to claim them. They should also offer CPD at no cost to both assessors & AWs - both are core to their business. From what I’ve read not all AWs would claim the expenses but at least the offer of them would be seen as recognition of their value & the role they play in the process.

Any increase in expenditure that may come out of this would, of course, need to be met somehow & that should rightly be through increases in the cost of a DSC2 qualification.

I have no horse in the race, I don’t have DSC2 - I took my DSC1 at the time when it was possible to do the LGMH qualification with it so have the trained hunter qualification from that. I did register for DSC2 & started completing my portfolio with help from friends who were AWs. However, due to starting & running my own business at the same time I timed out & wasn’t prepared to pay a second time to be able to finish the portfolio. Even back then the system smacked to me as a bit of a money maker.

If I were an AW then I would be doing the same as Malc has, to me this is about principles & DMQ seem to be demonstrating their lack of them!

Just my thoughts of course.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Thanks for taking the time to explain. It does make more sense and I can understand why people don't want to be an AW now more than ever.

I suppose it comes down to either wanting to volunteer your time for free for the satisfaction of doing so or if you want something else in return from DMQ.

I don't mind helping people or organisations I believe in but wouldn't do it for free if I didn't believe in the cause or person I was directly helping.

If DMQ had left it the way it was instead of going half cocked, making it easier by doing 1 stalk, going digital didn’t bother me, also not charging the AW’s I would be still going it for nothing with access to 4 of the UK 6, it was the 1 stalk that broke the camels back!

I don’t mind helping anyone, but I’ll be buggered if I’m paying idiots to work for nothing.

 

[Tim.243]

The pest control industry is heading in exactly the same direction, I now find myself having to complete 20pts CPD each year including 3 separate rodent courses, ordered by the very people who now charge, or surely will do, for the privilege! So I have,with 40 years experience, to listen to some graduate, with a lovely suit no doubt tell me that a rat is brown, or a deer eats grass

I remember doing a site induction in the tea hut with the piling rig lads sitting around waiting for the Q&A from a young Asian chap wearing a coat 2/3 sizes too big for him.
I asked him to read out the questions so he could write down my answers.

Q 1
What is the worst thing happening from your equipment (his wording lol)

A "death" but tooth ache comes close.

"lots of laughter from piling lads"

OK please sign

Had to make a double lean-to for a farmer in rsj (bolted)
Was asked to a site meeting (the old barn) to meet the chap who designed it (James)
xl Mac laptop on a stack of pallets, he opens it up music starts playing with a virtual 3d film of the job,
James, yes Tim I am 60 and work in imperial have you a cut list and can you please turn the music off.

 

[Mungo]

I suppose it comes down to either wanting to volunteer your time for free for the satisfaction of doing so or if you want something else in return from DMQ.

It’s the fact that they are making money off my labour, and then have the cheek of suggesting I pay them for the privilege.

I don't mind helping people or organisations I believe in but wouldn't do it for free if I didn't believe in the cause or person I was directly helping.

It’s not about a cause. It’s the fact that a profit making organisation has a business model that rests on charging the customer to use services provided by a third party, and are now attempting to charge that third party as well.

 

[nun_hunter]

It’s the fact that they are making money off my labour, and then have the cheek of suggesting I pay them for the privilege.



It’s not about a cause. It’s the fact that a profit making organisation has a business model that rests on charging the customer to use services provided by a third party, and are now attempting to charge that third party as well.

Then voting with your feet will send a message. Just depends if enough of you do so the message will be actioned.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Then voting with your feet will send a message. Just depends if enough of you do so the message will be actioned.

Voting with your feet is a good thing but unfortunately there is enough whipper snappers who have bugger all experience to fill the gaps unfortunately

 

[sikamalc]

Voting with your feet is a good thing but unfortunately there is enough whipper snappers who have bugger all experience to fill the gaps unfortunately

That's their problem now.

 

[venery]

Just to confirm my understanding of situation - is the £64 payment a one-off for the recent requirement to attend an AW re brief.

 

[BenC]

Just to confirm my understanding of situation - is the £64 payment a one-off for the recent requirement to attend an AW re brief.

Yes, and you can do it online-it doesn’t take long and doesn’t have to be in person like last time.

 

[JohnnyR]

Well Gentlemen and Ladies,
Just had an Email from DMQ regarding Approved witnesses and meetings.
Payment required to remain is £64.99. Or pay monthly.
As I am now officially a pensioner I'm not paying for something I don't charge for.

So I'm out. I have a feeling they will loose a fair few good AWs.
I've already cancelled 3 candidates.
Good luck to anyone trying to take it

 

[JohnnyR]

I'm out too.