BASC calls for independent regulatory body for firearms licensing

[Norfolk Deer Search]

After digesting all this and learning something new, i can not but think how outdated they whole system is!

No bloody wonder firearms licensing is in a buggers muddle!

Really to be efficient the whole lot needs re- writing and sorting and starting again

 

[Jeff8861]

I have no issue paying a fair price for a fair service, however that is something a lot of people aren't getting. I even suggested to @Conor O'Gorman that BASC should go to the offices of a firearms dept and observe the works practice to see where improvements could be made

What makes basc experts in running a licencse department. They have no knowledge or understanding of the various databases that are used. They have no expirence of dealing with visitors permits revocations voluntary surrenders section 11 safeguarding wellbeing mental health seizures evidence gathering intelligence reports file building I could go on.
Basc only highlight a portion of the work licensing departments carry out. What are they going to moan about once the wait times are reduced. I know one thing they are highlighting is how little we pay and how much cert holders are subsidised.

 

[8x57]

After digesting all this and learning something new, i can not but think how outdated they whole system is!

No bloody wonder firearms licensing is in a buggers muddle!

Really to be efficient the whole lot needs re- writing and sorting and starting again

That was something that was actually advocated by a lady in the Home Office at least 25 years ago. She also recommended moving the administration of the licensing system away from the police and setting up a new body to deal with it. She was shouted down, mainly by various police forces.

 

[8x57]

What makes basc experts in running a licencse department. They have no knowledge or understanding of the various databases that are used. They have no expirence of dealing with visitors permits revocations voluntary surrenders section 11 safeguarding wellbeing mental health seizures evidence gathering intelligence reports file building I could go on.
Basc only highlight a portion of the work licensing departments carry out. What are they going to moan about once the wait times are reduced. I know one thing they are highlighting is how little we pay and how much cert holders are subsidised.

On the contrary while they may not be experts in the field of I.T. several of the BASC staff will be very familiar with the workings of the police firearms licensing departments having previously been employed in such departments themselves previously.
However I do agree that it should be an independent body.

 

[Dalua]

Really to be efficient the whole lot needs re- writing and sorting and starting again

The problem with that is that 'really efficient' from a Home Office and Police perspective might well mean 'very awkward and very expensive' - since pretty much every change to the firearms law or its administration since 1900 has made things more difficult and more costly for lawful firearms-users.

My view is that they just need to be funded/adapted to be able to do what the current law says, but better. They all used to do it better, and my experience in Manchester is that they still seem to be doing pretty well - so I'm not sure all is lost just yet.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The problem with that is that 'really efficient' from a Home Office and Police perspective might well mean 'very awkward and very expensive' - since pretty much every change to the firearms law or its administration since 1900 has made things more difficult and more costly for lawful firearms-users.

My view is that they just need to be funded/adapted to be able to do what the current law says, but better. They all used to do it better, and my experience in Manchester is that they still seem to be doing pretty well - so I'm not sure all is lost just yet.

100% in agreement, but don’t you think we’ve had it too cheap too long?!

 

[8x57]

They all used to do it better,

Not in my experience.
The way that my local force currently operates their firearms department is a huge improvement on the way that they worked in the bad old days.

 

[8x57]

100% in agreement, but don’t you think we’ve had it too cheap too long?!

No.

 

[Apthorpe]

100% in agreement, but don’t you think we’ve had it too cheap too long?!

No. Unless you are also a tax dodger, it is an absurdity to even think this.

I know you have this opinion that the taxpayer shouldn't pay for things they don't directly use, but that is quite simply wrong. It doesn't matter that most of the public don't hold firearms certificates, they ALL benefit from the existence of them. Everyone in the country uses firearms certificates as a way of (allegedly) improving their safety and security. Legal firearms owners are only the people who are inconvenienced by them and who pay excess costs. It would be much fairer if firearms licensing was free to the applicant.

Were your opinion correct, then a government could not permit the existence of pensions, the NHS, the armed forces, roads, railways, airports, the Armed Forces, higher education, subsidies or other aid to manufacturing companies, and so on.

 

[Dalua]

100% in agreement, but don’t you think we’ve had it too cheap too long?!

Absolutely not!

I really cannot grasp where you get this 'too cheap' idea from. It doesn't strike me as helpful in the grand scheme of things - just as the pay-your-GP-for-a-form idea supported by BASC has increased costs to shooters without improving anything, it seems likely that any increased costs passed on to shooters, rather than the public purse, will also either make things worse for us or have no discernible effect.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Absolutely not!

I really cannot grasp where you get this 'too cheap' idea from. It doesn't strike me as helpful in the grand scheme of things - just as the pay-your-GP-for-a-form idea supported by BASC has increased costs to shooters without improving anything, it seems likely that any increased costs passed on to shooters, rather than the public purse, will also either make things worse for us or have no discernible effect.

Yes, but it is still too cheap!

With the cost of living, going up, labour, minimum wage, all creeping up in price and cost, you all need to get out of this world or headspace of comprehending that you’re paying too much when really, you’re paying a pittance an absolute pittance!

You’re not even living in the real world!

You want to shoot, it is going to cost you money end of subject , ammunition prices go up gun prices go up range, attendance days or go up in cost, shooting in any form is a luxury nowadays you need to get that in the head and luxuries cost!

 

[8x57]

Nonsense. Shooting isn't a luxury its a religion.

If anything we should be claiming tax relief much the same as other religions are exempt from VAT.

 

[LuckyEddie]

My question is should the first ever application for a SGC/FAC/AWL (Scotland) be more expensive?

The checks required should be more rigorous in the first place.

There after, as with the driving license, the costs should be less as the baseline data is there, is it not?

Also once the first application is granted, for whatever license, then if you want a different license (have FAC but want SGC) the baseline data is there and costs should be considerably less.

 

[8x57]

Also once the first application is granted, for whatever license, then if you want a different license (have FAC but want SGC) the baseline data is there and costs should be considerably less.

In the case of a FAC holder applying for a SGC this is simply done by return of post in most instances so minimal work involved. On the other hand where a SGC holder apples for a FAC then its far more involved.

 

[Greenmist]

My question is should the first ever application for a SGC/FAC/AWL (Scotland) be more expensive?

The checks required should be more rigorous in the first place.

There after, as with the driving license, the costs should be less as the baseline data is there, is it not?

Also once the first application is granted, for whatever license, then if you want a different license (have FAC but want SGC) the baseline data is there and costs should be considerably less.

If you look at fees, renewals are cheaper than grants already, but yes I agree with what you are saying completely

 

[Greenmist]

In the case of a FAC holder applying for a SGC this is simply done by return of post in most instances so minimal work involved. On the other hand where a SGC holder apples for a FAC then its far more involved.

Yep, if you have an FAC, SGC should be in a SAE, or even easier with less paperwork, if you have an FAC then you should be allowed to purchase sect2 firearms automatically without the need for a separate ticket

 

[Greenmist]

What makes basc experts in running a licencse department. They have no knowledge or understanding of the various databases that are used. They have no expirence of dealing with visitors permits revocations voluntary surrenders section 11 safeguarding wellbeing mental health seizures evidence gathering intelligence reports file building I could go on.
Basc only highlight a portion of the work licensing departments carry out. What are they going to moan about once the wait times are reduced. I know one thing they are highlighting is how little we pay and how much cert holders are subsidised.

It was something I highlighted with Conor when their list of firearms reforms was at best written on the back of a beer mat, to my knowledge he/they still haven't produced a list of recommendations (as it appeared to be a secret so wj couldn't block it) or reforms that would benefit shooters, although plenty on here have made suggestions that have been passed on to his colleagues supposedly, file 13 springs to mind

 

[Hornet 6]

You want to shoot, it is going to cost you money end of subject , ammunition prices go up gun prices go up range, attendance days or go up in cost, shooting in any form is a luxury nowadays you need to get that in the head and luxuries cost!

It's not a luxury, its a right provided you have not disqualified yourself for some reason.

Neil.

 

[Jeff8861]

On the contrary while they may not be experts in the field of I.T. several of the BASC staff will be very familiar with the workings of the police firearms licensing departments having previously been employed in such departments themselves previously.
However I do agree that it should be an independent body.

The IT part is the easy part as I've highlighted it's not all about doing grants renewals and variations. In regards to several basc staff you don't need just several you need hundreds of them

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Nonsense. Shooting isn't a luxury its a religion.

If anything we should be claiming tax relief much the same as other religions are exempt from VAT.

I do apologise for the short sharp kick in the bollocks, but those days are long, gone, along with the dodo!

Honestly, you lot really do need to get in the land of the living and not in the land we shoot we are gods gift to everything we must have everything now now now!

Really, in a brutally honest point of view, we, as shooters are nothing really, but a drain on resources of the police service, the pittance we pay for our firearms license/shotgun certificate is really disgusting to be honest and the cost needs to increase, to get a better service you need to pay more end of subject!

so really get in the real world, the world where the public purse owes you nothing, it needs to be reshaped, redesigned, refigured, and sorted accordingly.