What is the general consensus, online or in person attendance? I know it will very much depend on learning styles but feels as if you will loose out on a lot of opportunities to ask questions of the experienced stalker that is instructing the course? Toyed between in person for the above but the online variant for the convenience! Does anyone know why the DSC1 is cheaper through BASC rather than BDS? £305 for BASC in person, £340 for BDS remote + assessment day? Seems bizarre
BDS online DSC 1
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I did the original stalkers cert years ago, all done in person. The beauty of this was that a lot of learning happened by exchanging ideas, thoughts and experiences among the delegates….often in the bar after the days proceedings. Also met a few new buddies that I stalked with sometime later.
Cost initially seems strange but when you look at the savings in fuel, hotel, bar bill (lol) you are saving substantially. Also I believe that BDS have put a huge effort into this and feedback I have heard is very good.
I am not either is better, just each to their own and like it or not, technology will be more attractive to a younger generation…which apparently I am not anymore.
I am not either is better, just each to their own and like it or not, technology will be more attractive to a younger generation…which apparently I am not anymore.
Both of the courses are easily commutable from my home, I’m trying to weight it up. I can happily study independently and I’m quite used to the online training but do feel there would be more value in attending in person the gleam off the extra nuggets from others on the course and the instructor. The one day assessment is attractive from a time off work perspective. Need to try get people’s opinions of the online course to make sure it coverer everything in the detail you’d get in the class room!Cost initially seems strange but when you look at the savings in fuel, hotel, bar bill (lol) you are saving substantially. Also I believe that BDS have put a huge effort into this and feedback I have heard is very good.
I am not either is better, just each to their own and like it or not, technology will be more attractive to a younger generation…which apparently I am not anymore.
63
Well-Known Member
I’m most of the way through the online version.
Personally I like it, it’s better than most online training I’ve done. I weighed up similiar factors to you - in the end I decided I’d get more entertainment value from doing a bit of online course every week over several months, rather than a 3 day block.
In terms of content, it kind of has to be all there. I’ve done a fair amount of shooting and some stalking before, so very little of the material was genuinely new to me (although I learnt stuff in each section) which I think helps. It’s also fact based rather than concept based knowledge, which helps. Overall it works for me.
Don’t forget an in person course can also be sub par for all kinds of reason - I’ve spent many an hour listening to some lunatic ramble on in front of an unrelated set of power point slides.
Personally I like it, it’s better than most online training I’ve done. I weighed up similiar factors to you - in the end I decided I’d get more entertainment value from doing a bit of online course every week over several months, rather than a 3 day block.
In terms of content, it kind of has to be all there. I’ve done a fair amount of shooting and some stalking before, so very little of the material was genuinely new to me (although I learnt stuff in each section) which I think helps. It’s also fact based rather than concept based knowledge, which helps. Overall it works for me.
Don’t forget an in person course can also be sub par for all kinds of reason - I’ve spent many an hour listening to some lunatic ramble on in front of an unrelated set of power point slides.
So with working away, I have settled with the remote course (BDS) with assessment day. I’ve also booked an intro to deer stalking day at Graythwaite Estate which is a few hours of theory in the morning, loads of range shooting, simulated stalk and an evening stalk! Looking forward to it and letting my FAC application in!
Not sure, the way I have booked mine is that I have booked an assessment day and the online training in one go. Would imagine if you did this you could feasibly book out to the end of the current training calendar to give yourself as much time to swot up as needed. It is recommended to give yourself 8 weeks for the home study.
Koenig
Well-Known Member
That’s my understanding of it.
Koenig
Well-Known Member
Professional online teaching lends itself well to some subject matter…..and less so to others. DSC1 can be an expensive undertaking for some: course / travel / B&B etc. The shooting test must be carried out in person by an impartial assessor…not ‘my mate Dave at the club’. This in my opinion should be combined with an in person safety test. This should include rifle handling and safety considerations namely backstop / ricochet hazards etc. I take trainees out regularly and don’t suffer the unsafe at all. A good trainee always thinks through where their round will end up, understands how to read ground and also thinks of the wider optics of what he/she is doing. Our families aren’t going to starve if we come home without an animal so why chance it? I want to determine if the trainee listens to and follows instruction, if they are prepared to take unacceptable risks (before I stop them). If they want to argue the point - essentially the ‘attitude test’. This the first mandatory face to face part for me. The second part is gralloching and food hygiene. Again, in my opinion almost impossible to teach effectively with no practical aspect. Just my view of course, but essential in person activity to my mind.
I think there's a few folk on this thread confusing the "assessment only" home learning option, which has always been an option, with the new online learning option.
In the original home learning option you received the same course material as those who took the classroom based course, and it was up to you to basically teach yourself and prepare yourself for the assessment using just the course material and a few other available resources. There was no tutor input. You just had to show up on the day and take the test without having received any training.
In contrast, the new online course includes a digitslised version of all of the teaching that would be included in the classroom based course, together with structured revision sessions, online Web chats and access to a tutor to answer your questions.
It is basically the full classroom based course, but followed from the comfort of your own home.
You do obviously still have to turn up in person on the appointed day to sit the exam and take the shooting test.
In the original home learning option you received the same course material as those who took the classroom based course, and it was up to you to basically teach yourself and prepare yourself for the assessment using just the course material and a few other available resources. There was no tutor input. You just had to show up on the day and take the test without having received any training.
In contrast, the new online course includes a digitslised version of all of the teaching that would be included in the classroom based course, together with structured revision sessions, online Web chats and access to a tutor to answer your questions.
It is basically the full classroom based course, but followed from the comfort of your own home.
You do obviously still have to turn up in person on the appointed day to sit the exam and take the shooting test.
Funny I've recently done the online part of this course (just waiting for the assessment day) and was shocked at how poorly done it was so am quite surprised to see a few positives on here about this
I worked at an e-learning company for 5 years so do know a bit about how to make e-learning for compliance
They've taken the print book modules and put them into a video presenation + reading module + a separate test per chapter of the book (or couple of chapters)
there is nothing wrong with the information at all - it is all there it's just poorly implemented for online and just really shoddy
There hasn't been any affort to actually reformat the information for online - the videos literaly read out broad chunks from the book (nothing against the guy in the video he does a decent job but it is dry as hell) the readng is via a PDF chapter of the book
Imagine a table of the Closed season dates for all 6 species, male and female put up on the screen and then someone just blandly reading the entire table out line by line without even the least bit of additional info - if you were in a classroom that would never happen - you would at least get "as you can see the Sika close season starts at the same time as Red and fallow but extends a bit later" any little bits of info to help you remeber and digest the info
Now imagine this same scenario for a names of the dozen legal acts relating to firearms in England, and then the same for wales and for Scotland etc etc etc
it's not clear if you are expected to be able to reel off all the dates and acts or not but it is a waste for time for a person to stand and read something which is displayed on screen for 5 minutes
No discussion around the topic or explanation as you would get if you were in an actuall classroom for this
it's missing a lot of useful stuff that is pretty basic
I do think it is a waste of money and would have preferred to do an in person version but dates werent lining up and I have a very decent person lined up to run me through some in the field training and the DSC2 later this year so just want this ticked off now
I worked at an e-learning company for 5 years so do know a bit about how to make e-learning for compliance
They've taken the print book modules and put them into a video presenation + reading module + a separate test per chapter of the book (or couple of chapters)
there is nothing wrong with the information at all - it is all there it's just poorly implemented for online and just really shoddy
There hasn't been any affort to actually reformat the information for online - the videos literaly read out broad chunks from the book (nothing against the guy in the video he does a decent job but it is dry as hell) the readng is via a PDF chapter of the book
Imagine a table of the Closed season dates for all 6 species, male and female put up on the screen and then someone just blandly reading the entire table out line by line without even the least bit of additional info - if you were in a classroom that would never happen - you would at least get "as you can see the Sika close season starts at the same time as Red and fallow but extends a bit later" any little bits of info to help you remeber and digest the info
Now imagine this same scenario for a names of the dozen legal acts relating to firearms in England, and then the same for wales and for Scotland etc etc etc
it's not clear if you are expected to be able to reel off all the dates and acts or not but it is a waste for time for a person to stand and read something which is displayed on screen for 5 minutes
No discussion around the topic or explanation as you would get if you were in an actuall classroom for this
it's missing a lot of useful stuff that is pretty basic
- no ability to do any of it offline
- no subtitles or transcripts for the videos (not very inclusive and likely a breach of legislation)
- no randomisation of quiz questions or ability to do an 'overall' quiz - so basically once you've done the quiz once per module it is too easy and not much good for revision
- some of the quizes dont line up with the modules so you get a quiz covering topics which are in a module you havent done yet
- even the book chapters are all out of sequence as they have put the learning in a different order but not even bothered to renumber the book chapters
I do think it is a waste of money and would have preferred to do an in person version but dates werent lining up and I have a very decent person lined up to run me through some in the field training and the DSC2 later this year so just want this ticked off now
I think as VSS says above if you can find the assessment only option then just buy the book for £30 from BDS and subscribe to the Ultimate Deer data for 2 months and do it yourself - the online course has very little over and above whats in the printed manual
at least that's what I'd have done if i knew - but then i'm used to e-learning, depends if you think you would be self motiviated enough to get through it all
willing to hear other opinions but I discussed it with the person who is going to do my DSC2 and LANTRA food hygiene and as far as he explains it the DSC1 is much more 'book learning' while DSC2 is more practical skills and needs the time out in the field so I took the view that any way you could get through DSC1 would sort of do.
I've got someone as a mentor and I don't see myself doing solo stalks on my own permissions for a long time yet and am keen to learn outdoors under a range of situations, so 3 days in a classroom may not be of any benefit
co’den
Well-Known Member
That’s good feedback. Have you shared it with BDS? With your background in online learning you may be able to assist them to improve the online course.
I’ve just done my BASC Pre-DSC1 course, and found the benefits of being able to learn live with an experienced instructor, and to be able to ask lots of ’newbie’ stalking questions of them and to share experiences with the others attending, an invaluable experience. The practical shooting part of the day was without doubt extremely useful, as not only did we have the opportunity to practice at 100, 70 and 20 yards with a .243 and a .308, but we then also each did a full DSC1 shooting test under the exact same conditions as the full course (I passed 
).
We also got lots of tips from the instructor about where people get things wrong on the full DSC1 shooting part - biggest two mistakes he said were:
Like many of the previous comments, I’ve now got to decide whether to do the DSC1 online theory part, and then the shooting test, or to spend three days away which is a much less simple option and unlikely for me. Also I’m going to look at the other option of the PDS1 route too - any views on which might be the best option?
).We also got lots of tips from the instructor about where people get things wrong on the full DSC1 shooting part - biggest two mistakes he said were:
- people turning up with quad sticks and not being used to using them or able to use them properly, and failing the 70 yard part. While we were there, a guy arrived to also do his second re-sit of his DSC1 shooting test, and he had previously failed each time on exactly that, although this time on his second attempt of the day he finally passed...
- Not enough time spent on the range prior to the course actually getting used to equipment and shooting at targets at the ranges required.
Like many of the previous comments, I’ve now got to decide whether to do the DSC1 online theory part, and then the shooting test, or to spend three days away which is a much less simple option and unlikely for me. Also I’m going to look at the other option of the PDS1 route too - any views on which might be the best option?
The dilemma I faced with regards time made available! I’m about a week into my online learning DSC 1, I would say the material is sufficient, as others have said, but not as engaging. I’m supplementing with some guided stalks / days and going out with a mentor to ask all the daft questions too!I’ve just done my BASC Pre-DSC1 course, and found the benefits of being able to learn live with an experienced instructor, and to be able to ask lots of ’newbie’ stalking questions of them and to share experiences with the others attending, an invaluable experience. The practical shooting part of the day was without doubt extremely useful, as not only did we have the opportunity to practice at 100, 70 and 20 yards with a .243 and a .308, but we then also each did a full DSC1 shooting test under the exact same conditions as the full course (I passed
We also got lots of tips from the instructor about where people get things wrong on the full DSC1 shooting part - biggest two mistakes he said were:
We were taught the best way to do the 70 yard test is to use a small tripod, sit your rear end on the ground with your elbows on each raised knee for support, and to hold the tripod steady with your left hand - it certainly worked for me and the others on the day and proved a very stable platform. I hope this helps some of you to consider what you are going to do on your proper test.
- people turning up with quad sticks and not being used to using them or able to use them properly, and failing the 70 yard part. While we were there, a guy arrived to also do his second re-sit of his DSC1 shooting test, and he had previously failed each time on exactly that, although this time on his second attempt of the day he finally passed...
- Not enough time spent on the range prior to the course actually getting used to equipment and shooting at targets at the ranges required.
Like many of the previous comments, I’ve now got to decide whether to do the DSC1 online theory part, and then the shooting test, or to spend three days away which is a much less simple option and unlikely for me. Also I’m going to look at the other option of the PDS1 route too - any views on which might be the best option?
Hi all, for completeness and any future reference, i completed the online DSC1 training with BDS and attended an assessment day over the bank holiday weekend.
Course Material
Pros:
Pros:
Pros:
Cheers,
Lewis
Course Material
Pros:
- The online training was split into manageable lessons. This gave me the ability to drop in and out the course.
- The lessons were relatively self-containing. The recorded lecture probably just about covers what you need to know to get through assessment, but I would recommend further reading and learning to understand rather than just know…
- The modules (unlike in the training manual) followed a logical sequence and built your knowledge up module by module. I suspect just reading the manual would have been more difficult to follow
- The quizzes are a really good touch point to test your knowledge before moving on
- All in all the content and delivery was sufficient and provided an excellent amount of flexibility for me (and others) to undertake the training.
- Any and all questions or queries were answered really quickly though the online portal
- The video lessons definitely aren’t the most dynamic
- The manual is really difficult to read in digital formal and you aren’t able to make proper notes
- The safety questions are ok, but not brilliant
- Species identification is poor, this was the one thing I really had to work on and use other resource to assist with - luckily BDS seem to have realised this and it was partially taught / covered on the assessment day
- The quizzes for the large game section were lacking and I saw questions in the assessment I hadn’t seen before which did throw me a little
Pros:
- Excellent assessor (Glyn Ingram) and BDS assistants
- Good location
- Spent the time revising common areas of failure
- Spent time revising species identification
- Informative
- Great range and safety area
- It was sunny in Scotland!
- It made me want to have attended the full in person course - purely because you learn so much more when other are around you and I think you’d get a lot more out that peer to peer learning and the increased face to face with the assessor.
Pros:
- Assessor spent a lot of time going through the kill zones on the target ensuing everyone understood the heart / lung shot placement that was required
- Marksmanship principles were explained and demonstrated, including shooting off the sticks
- There was several novices (including myself) who were all given the time needed to familiarise themselves with firearm before the shooting assessment (personally only needed one shot before assessment)
- Really good safety area set up that were relatable to real world stalking situations
- Really enjoyed the discussion with one of the BDS assistants, just a good craic!
- I was probably a bit apprehensive going into it not having had much range time. I had practiced air rifle on sticks so was ok with it. Would just reiterate the need to put some time in with the sticks if nothing else. In the end I passed first go with some good groupings so nothing to worry about
- Start the learning early! I do a lot of training (including online) with work, have an MSc and have a job that involves ecology / environment considerations (so some knowledge) and I was genuinely surprised at quite how much there was to get through and learn!
- Take the time to gain an understanding, rather than just knowledge. If you understand it the assessment process is easier and actually it’ll stick with you, if you have knowledge you’ll probably learn to get through your assessment, rather than really get to grips with it all.
- Get the printed BDS manual, it really supplements the training with a lot of extra detail that is included on the online learning but is difficult to process given the format.
- Read / review other resources:- I listened to a few podcasts by Rory Putman, some of the Fieldsport Channel documentaries, read The Deer Stalkers Bedside Book and The Complete Deer Stalker. I would say this allowed me to read around the subject as well as just reading / studying the course material, I like to think it’s educated me to some degree
- Don’t fret about the shooting assessment, but do put the time in getting somewhat familiar with setting up / shooting in prone positions and off sticks - if you don’t you will struggle as you won’t be able to control the muzzle enough to get your shots off at 70m or for human dispatch
- IF YOU CAN, ATTEND THE FULL COURSE! I fully get that not everyone can get the time to attend the full course (myself included) but I think it would be by far the better way to complete the course. You will learn so much more in a room with other experienced stalkers and students all asking the same questions and going through the process. The online course was a great resource and it worked for me, but it wouldn’t work for everyone. As I say, if you can, attend in person. If you can’t or it’s going to be difficult, the online course and assessment day is a great opportunity and valid alternative.
Cheers,
Lewis
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