Beaters wages
- Thread starter teyhan1
- Start date
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Must admit i struggle to find any argument for beaters or pickers up not gettin a fare and proper wage, and esp so on commercial shoots
There is plenty of counrty side workers (part time keepers, SE farm workers/shepherds or tractor drivers even forestry workers) that could do with a decent income throu the traditioonally quietier months, their not paid well at the best off times anyway
I fully understand how much it costs to rear and produce shootable birds but if u can't make a profit u should up the price per bird to the guns not susidise guns shoooting by paying beaters peanuts
I realise that is why many off the larger shoots are really pushing for larger bags as overheads similar for more income, unless u can run a minimal squad seen me out only with 1 or 2 other beaters plus the keepers and beating a 50+ bird mini driven day
This sh*te money or only giving u a meal and u should be happy hark's back to a time before commercial shoots existed and shoots were ran for the laird/landowner and most of the beaters would consist of his staff (butlers, groom/stable boys, gardeners and farm workers) who are already being paid by the laird anyway so the meal or small tip is just a thank you for mucking in on top off their wage.
As for the argument it's enjoyable, yes it is and it is a joy to get and and work my dogs doesn't mean i should not get paid for it!
Next time i have a tradesman round who looks to be enjoying his work to much and singing to the radio all day i'll try to offer him 30quid and a bowl off soup, dinae think it will go down to well.
I am serverly restricting my beating/picking up this season as simply can't afford to go, althou i will prob stil manage 35-40ish days but i am now very selective, actually makes more finacial sense for me to buy a days shooting instead of going beating 3 times but it's the dogs more than the trigger pulling that intrests me
There is plenty of counrty side workers (part time keepers, SE farm workers/shepherds or tractor drivers even forestry workers) that could do with a decent income throu the traditioonally quietier months, their not paid well at the best off times anyway
I fully understand how much it costs to rear and produce shootable birds but if u can't make a profit u should up the price per bird to the guns not susidise guns shoooting by paying beaters peanuts
I realise that is why many off the larger shoots are really pushing for larger bags as overheads similar for more income, unless u can run a minimal squad seen me out only with 1 or 2 other beaters plus the keepers and beating a 50+ bird mini driven day
This sh*te money or only giving u a meal and u should be happy hark's back to a time before commercial shoots existed and shoots were ran for the laird/landowner and most of the beaters would consist of his staff (butlers, groom/stable boys, gardeners and farm workers) who are already being paid by the laird anyway so the meal or small tip is just a thank you for mucking in on top off their wage.
As for the argument it's enjoyable, yes it is and it is a joy to get and and work my dogs doesn't mean i should not get paid for it!
Next time i have a tradesman round who looks to be enjoying his work to much and singing to the radio all day i'll try to offer him 30quid and a bowl off soup, dinae think it will go down to well.
I am serverly restricting my beating/picking up this season as simply can't afford to go, althou i will prob stil manage 35-40ish days but i am now very selective, actually makes more finacial sense for me to buy a days shooting instead of going beating 3 times but it's the dogs more than the trigger pulling that intrests me
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
Spot on .. .
It could almost be argued that the beaters are one of the most important
factors to be considered when putting on a days shooting, because at the end of
the day .... No beaters = no shooting.
8x57
Distinguished Member
I don't think you will find a shoot in the country that won't have shouting and abuse amongst the beaters
But I’m quiet and sensitive by nature, and I don’t like loud noises.
To deviate slightly, I was on a fox shoot a few years back on an estate where some of the younger royals sometimes shoot. There was an underkeeper shouting and abusing one of the other shooters. Frankly it was quite uncalled for. My mate turned to me and said “he won’t be here long, ****** the keeper doesn’t like that sort of thing”. He was right because the next time we went that underkeeper had been moved on.
Theres really no need to swear at people.If a keepers organisational skills are not good enough to put people where they need to be, or they keep people on who have no interest apart from a long walk and a chat, then they only have themselves to blame.
I cant ever remember being sworn at or seen anyone abused.Keepers i work for explain the game plan, and put someone in charge of an area they cant directly control if they are going to be out of earshot.Everyone does their best to make the day go right because they like the keeper, and have a bit of pride in the shoot.
I cant ever remember being sworn at or seen anyone abused.Keepers i work for explain the game plan, and put someone in charge of an area they cant directly control if they are going to be out of earshot.Everyone does their best to make the day go right because they like the keeper, and have a bit of pride in the shoot.
Gaz
Well-Known Member
Your not in a good area there Bomag, not many/any commercial shoots that I know of by you. We do have 4 or 5 lads coming over from Builth on times through the season, but its about an hours drive for you to the 3 or 4 shoots that are sometimes short of beaters/pickers locally to me. I'll do my best and try and get you in when/if any opportunity arises.Do you know of any Beating in the Builth area Gaz? Im struggling to find a Shoot to work my dogs onUnless I go back to Surrey, but that's not really cost effective!!
Had to work today
while the Wifey was picking up on a 500 bird day 
. Gaz
jamross65
Well-Known Member
You make a comparison with a tradesman, a skilled worker who has undergone an apprenticeship and a beater walking through a wood under constant instruction from a keeper as to when to wave a flag or clap their hands, really?????
A day for me goes like this, meet by 9am, start picking up/loading (same hours as the beaters though) by say 10ish, stop around 12.30-1pm, start again by 2pm at earliest, 2 more drives and finished by 4pm. It's not a hugely responsible, skilled service we are providing, its casual labour at best!
The shoots would not survive without us but neither would we have the work for our dogs or the chance of a 200bird day in January either. Personally, for beaters anything around the £35 mark is not far off the mark.
have a wee look at the following and explain why on a 7hr day you think for walking through some woods tapping a stick under constant supervision you should get more than the minimum wage?
National Minimum Wage rates - GOV.UK
norma 308
Well-Known Member
But sometimes even after explaining a dozen times and several expletives over the radio you can find a picker up ina drive your suppose to be doing after lunch arhhh ! The swearing well it's just a pressure release ain't it I always apologise for it before the season gets under way
jamross65
Well-Known Member
But sometimes even after explaining a dozen times and several expletives over the radio you can find a picker up ina drive your suppose to be doing after lunch arhhh ! The swearing well it's just a pressure release ain't it I always apologise for it before the season gets under way
Norma, if a picker-up goes into a wood looking for a bird without checking first that it's okay, its on their head what comes next.....
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Aye fair enough about tradesmen, but boys running lines or pickers up running teams of decent dogs and 4x4's are worth more than the minium wage.
Always be work for ur dogs just hunting hedgrows or down the foresore etc
Thats wot happpens when u pay peanuts u get boys who don't think know the shoot or really care and thats when drives get ruined.
Over the last few years seriously thinking about the pheasants costs me far too much money to go beating or picking up, just cann't afford it anymore. I have a few keepers who will phone if desperate and i will help them out but more and more i'm just saying no.
The money it costs in taking days of work i could afford pay for a 200 brd day and not a walk1/beat1
Always be work for ur dogs just hunting hedgrows or down the foresore etc
Thats wot happpens when u pay peanuts u get boys who don't think know the shoot or really care and thats when drives get ruined.
Over the last few years seriously thinking about the pheasants costs me far too much money to go beating or picking up, just cann't afford it anymore. I have a few keepers who will phone if desperate and i will help them out but more and more i'm just saying no.
The money it costs in taking days of work i could afford pay for a 200 brd day and not a walk1/beat1
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Do you not think that its because of the low reward that those who go with dogs really are doing it for the chance to work them and the love of the sport?
One thing that has always been a bit of a sore point, is that when picking up you turn up with a team of 4 dogs, return after each drive with dozens of birds, and some other picker up with one tired mutt recovering 3 birds gets the same payment. I always felt that a base wage for picking up as you need at least one dog, should be enhanced for each extra dog you bring. Sorry for going off topic a bit...
teyhan1
Well-Known Member
I think that the same should be applied to beaters.
I turn up a 7am to hold birds in a wood that borders the neighbours. I run the line on a number of occasions through the day. I escort the guns to drives and hold and line out the beaters on drives. I blank in areas often on my own, whilst the other beaters go to the other end of a drive and yes I do shout at them to make some noise/tap some sticks/keep the line straight.
Do you think I am worth the same as a 20something who couldn't give a to$$ and just wants some extra beer money?
I take it that after all the response that you no longer wish to beat on this shoot?
Could you please offer up your place to someone that would be happy to take your place.
stan
jamross65
Well-Known Member
But you didn't ask in your OP what you were worth for all this extra work you were doing and time put in, the original question and subsequent discussion has all been about average beaters wages, are they fair and what some feel their true worth is, has it not?
teyhan1
Well-Known Member
Yep, spoke to my friend just today and he's managed to get 6x beaters. Thats it. Word soon gets around.
No doubt there will be a few of their friends kids. Last time they were about as much use as tits on a bull. Oh yeah, she's decided that kids don't warrant getting any money. Fine way to get young blood into the sport.
Perhaps shes worried that shes going to spend the £20million divorce settlement on beaters wages.
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
What grinds on me is this ...when it comes to the beating there is never any
shortage of those on the dole / invalidity is there?
£30 quid a day cash in hand .. not a dog or a bright idea between between them.
Then you have other lads running a team of dogs, taking a day off work to help
out, paying fuel cost to get there and getting the same miserly £30 quid, it's these lads
that can make or break a big comercial day.
I don't think the argument 'but it's work for the dogs' holds any water, it isn't
hard to find a bit of work for them walking through the local woodland, or having
a rough day here and there on your own ground... Most people have put
a hell of a work into their dogs and when used on big comercial shoots
that should be acknowledged and rewarded accordingly.
shortage of those on the dole / invalidity is there?
£30 quid a day cash in hand .. not a dog or a bright idea between between them.
Then you have other lads running a team of dogs, taking a day off work to help
out, paying fuel cost to get there and getting the same miserly £30 quid, it's these lads
that can make or break a big comercial day.
I don't think the argument 'but it's work for the dogs' holds any water, it isn't
hard to find a bit of work for them walking through the local woodland, or having
a rough day here and there on your own ground... Most people have put
a hell of a work into their dogs and when used on big comercial shoots
that should be acknowledged and rewarded accordingly.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Cadex, I have to be honest with you, the only dogs I normally see in beating lines nowadays that can be trusted to work properly and not run in and ruin a drive are the keepers. Do you know many people who's dog is of a standard to be allowed to hunt freely in a beating line hunting over thousands of birds? In fact down here the majority of dogs inthe line range from terriers, to collies and are never off a lead or bit of string. All the good dogs are behind the guns...
I know how much work it takes to have a dog capable of hunting and turning away from a rabbit or hare that's put up, never mind the red mist that descends when in among a lot of birds. That nice quartering action (natural, not installed) the spaniel did during the owners limited training suddenly turns into a straight line mad dash to the flushing fence with birds firing out every direction, and the keeper saying that the mutt will be left in the car or kept on a lead from now on...
I'm serious, unless on a syndicate or smaller shoot where the members or team are proper dog men I think you would be lucky to find many shoots with more than two or three dogs in the line that really do make a huge difference to a big shoot day. I expect someone to now come on and say they know so and so who's dogs are outstanding in a line, and no doubt they are but I'm talking generally on the thousands of shoots across the country, not a handful. Maybe it's just in my neck of the woods the beating lads have wild dogs.....
On the last shoot I keepered there was no money for beaters or anything else come to that, I had a brilliant team of beaters and pickers upthe atmosphere was brilliant and every day was a good one. They came because they wanted to. I did what I could giveing them what birds they wanted, a good lunch, two beaters days (one immediately after Christmas) and the odd fox drive.
There is such a varience between shoots that it is hard to say how much should be paid, Clearly the really large commercial shoots are in a totally different position.
I suspect the large majority of shoots are run on a shoestring so pay will be very low or nothing at all. There are still a lot of people out there who beat/pick up just for the love of it.
There is such a varience between shoots that it is hard to say how much should be paid, Clearly the really large commercial shoots are in a totally different position.
I suspect the large majority of shoots are run on a shoestring so pay will be very low or nothing at all. There are still a lot of people out there who beat/pick up just for the love of it.
Bomag
Well-Known Member
Your not in a good area there Bomag, not many/any commercial shoots that I know of by you. We do have 4 or 5 lads coming over from Builth on times through the season, but its about an hours drive for you to the 3 or 4 shoots that are sometimes short of beaters/pickers locally to me. I'll do my best and try and get you in when/if any opportunity arises.
Had to work today
Thanks Gaz.
Its hunting country here, as I keep being told when talking about rifle and driven shooting
I know Brynmelyn are after Beaters, but they are 2 hours from me and a Shoot near Crickhowell is also after Beaters but that's nearly an hour on roads that get nasty through the winter.
teyhan1
Well-Known Member
I think what you've said is perfectly correct, we do it because we love it. However you also highlight that some shoots are run on a shoestring and they are relying on our love of the sport to subsidise their shooting.
Deer stalking is the same. If I were to post on here that I needed help culling 50 Reds on a deer park I would be inundated with offers. However would I take them up? No. The deer would all be shot to pieces, gralloched badly and would therefore cost me money. A bit like beating, bad beaters=bad day. I get paid to help on the deer park because they know I can do the job and not make a hash of it. The money is incidental, I do it because i love it.
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