Brexit

[enfieldspares]

Yes, HOWA243 pretty much understands where I'm coming from.

There wasn't any immigration problem with the EU before the uncontrolled influx of Eastern European nationals.

Yet we had freedom of movement before then. But who were those that came? Usually high level French or German managers of their multinational business's presence locally in the UK.

I used to flyfish with a French guy who was that when Fison Pharmaceuticals became Pfizer and French owned.

Or you'd get Portuguese in Lincolnshire coming seasonally for agricultural work and then returning at the end of the season. Although parts of Boston in Lincolnshire were known as "little Portugal" the matter was local to the Fens.

And the eternal Spanish waiter...like Manuel in Fawlty Towers...or similar. But it was few...I'd doubt even struggling to make five thousand a year in total and in roles that didn't undercut on wage rates our own low skilled workers.

So from my recollection there was no issue of immigration, uncontrolled from the EU, before the Eastern Europeans.

And in return we got what? Cadbury closed and gone to Poland and, in France Peugeout Citroen at Aulnay sous Bois north of Paris closed and gone to Eastern Europe.

(It's the massive railway sidings with trees pushing up between the tracks you see on your left from the Eurostar, or A1 Motorway, as you approach Paris).

I read that Slovakia is now Europe's largest car producer now?

So we exported our jobs East and imported their unemployed West.

And yet it's "racist" to resent that we were sold a bum deal in 2004 when the EU allowed the former Soviet Bloc countries to join?

I don't think so.

 

[mchughcb]

What on earth are you talking about? It takes 9 days to get a container to Dampier in Aus and 15 days to Sydney

Flight time is 21hours + a stop over so min more like 30 hours

It takes 3 days to get a container to Shanghi in China? and 10 hours to fly to Beijing

Yes but we are getting better. Direct flights will cut that down a bit

 

[mchughcb]

Trains are now bringing containers from China to Europe, quicker than by sea and cheaper than by air.

Very interesting.

 

[JTO]

We are keeping all that is wrong with the eU like the million and one pointless rules we now have.

But after Brexit, we would be able to change them, politically correct MPs permitting.

 

[Chasey]

So we want to get rid of all the European bureaucracy and legislation.

So the first thing the government does is to bring a bill that enshrines all of the EU legislation into British Law.

Exactly. We will have to comply with all EU regulations if we want to continue to trade with them

If they bring out a new one we will have to comply with that as well

If we are seen to be implementing regulations that undermine the EUs position, we will be penalised.

As said before theres a GDP imbalance 400% in favour of the EU so they have significant negotiationg power over us

To believe otherwise is sheer fantasy. The one with the most power will always dominate in negotiations and impose their will.

That's the way the human race works from the school playground to the grave

 

[mchughcb]

Seriously, next time your software is outsourced to India, ask yourself do the Indians comply with EU regulations? Next time you get a big load of produce out of China or Ecuador ask yourself to they comply with EU regulations? Whether the answer is yes or no, it still happens and if it can happen with them it can happen with the UK.

I've never seen so many negative people. The UK was great before it joined the EU, infact it was so great it was a superpower that dominated the globe. Maybe it needs a Trump slogan, lets make the UK great again. And getting rid of the bureaucracy and red tape that is an impediment to business is probably a good start.

 

[tackb]

Exactly. We will have to comply with all EU regulations if we want to continue to trade with them

If they bring out a new one we will have to comply with that as well

If we are seen to be implementing regulations that undermine the EUs position, we will be penalised.

As said before theres a GDP imbalance 400% in favour of the EU so they have significant negotiationg power over us

To believe otherwise is sheer fantasy. The one with the most power will always dominate in negotiations and impose their will.

That's the way the human race works from the school playground to the grave

surely by that analogy we would be well advised to attempt to increase our power to improve our position in negotiations, something that we surely cant do being a part of the EU?

and as an example , good old DC went to negotiate a better deal with them for us because we were not happy no matter how you looked at it , and he came back with nothing !

I think the bullying arrogance of the EU has played a big part in brexit like it or not!

 

[Highlandsjohn]

(quote) I think the bullying arrogance of the EU has played a big part in brexit like it or not! (quote)

Yes exactly,along with the doomsday messages being rolled out ad nauseam to put the frighteners on the electorate which completely backfired.

Anti indi 2 please take note (or not)

 

[JTO]

I've never seen so many negative people. The UK was great before it joined the EU, infact it was so great it was a superpower that dominated the globe. Maybe it needs a Trump slogan, lets make the UK great again. And getting rid of the bureaucracy and red tape that is an impediment to business is probably a good start.

Most of the media, including/especially the BBC, have become the opposition in both the UK and the USA. They tried hard before June 23rd, and they're still trying.

 

[Apthorpe]

Exactly. We will have to comply with all EU regulations if we want to continue to trade with them

If they bring out a new one we will have to comply with that as well

If we are seen to be implementing regulations that undermine the EUs position, we will be penalised.

As said before theres a GDP imbalance 400% in favour of the EU so they have significant negotiationg power over us

To believe otherwise is sheer fantasy. The one with the most power will always dominate in negotiations and impose their will.

That's the way the human race works from the school playground to the grave

So what's the point you're making? That applies to exactly the same extent whether we are in or out of the EU.
Actually only companies trading with the EU will need to comply. The 90+% which don't would no longer need comply.
The relative sizes of GDP aren't especially relevant since the negotiation is over trade. The current facts are that with no Brexit deal our exports would get hit with an average 4.5% tariff, yet as members of the EU the UK pays more than 5% of the value of the exports to the EU. Not only that but we are currently forbidden from entering into any other free trade agreement.

 

[finnbear270]

I think we should sail up the Yangtse again & pop one off over their neighbours!

 

[Pedro]

EU laws, rules and regulations are, for the most part adhered to in the U.K. It's the other members of the EU that generally drag their heels. Or even ignore them. After all, it's the Spanish authorities that will enforce those regs in Spain...

 

[sikamalc]

Well we all have our own opinions on what is going to happen, but truth is none of us really know for sure, so basically most of it is speculation. However we again seem to have one or two posts that are becoming uncalled for.

 

[Pedro]

Quite right sikamalc, all speculation. As for uncalled for comments, I guess politics always tends to generate them.

 

[enfieldspares]

Well claiming Britain was a world superpower in the decade before we joined the Common Market is having a laugh, reading too much Daily Express or wasn't alive then?

Disaster at Suez in 1956, military withdrawal from East of Suez in the 1960s, the undignified scramble to exit Africa, cancellation of the TSR-2, cancellation of planning replacements for HMS Victorious or HMS Ark Royal.

Army amalgamations of cavalry regiments 9 and 12 Lancers, RHG, Rotyal Dragoons and others and disbandment of infantry regiments such as the Leicestershire Regiment and etc.

The Pound devalued, the UK cap in hand to the IMF and a domestic car and ship building industry haemorraging money and having to be saved by the state.

That's the facts of "world superpower" UK...not what Daily Express prints on 30 March 2017.

Now whether joining the Common Market was good, bad, indifferent doesn't alter the fact that England winning the 1966 World Cup doesn't affirm Britain's being any sort or "world superpower" that "dominated the globe".

 

[old man]

As an aside, I was in Portugal last year and spoke to a boat trip chap on a round the bay tour.

He said he used to be full time fishermen but the bulk of the fleet had finished under EU rules rigorously enforced by their government, adding that the Spanish fishing fleet sailed up to their coast with impunity?

 

[enfieldspares]

Same in Belgium. Zeebrugge. One of my drivers "Francky Fisherman" so not to be confused with "Francky the Dog" used to be a cod fisherman.

He said there were nearly a hundred plus boats. Fished off Iceland, landed the fish in Liverpool onto Belgian lorries that took it to Belgium.

Now only three fishing vessels...two which are permanently moored museum ships.

 

[landkeeper]

All the naysayers suggesting business will all have to bow down to the eu regs on this and that post brexit assume that there will be an eu in its present form to bow down too , personally i think the clock is ticking on the eu as it stands at the moment ,the common market may have been a good idea but whats there now is cumbersome unweildy and unworkable long term

 

[Chasey]

So what's the point you're making? That applies to exactly the same extent whether we are in or out of the EU.
Actually only companies trading with the EU will need to comply. The 90+% which don't would no longer need comply.
The relative sizes of GDP aren't especially relevant since the negotiation is over trade. The current facts are that with no Brexit deal our exports would get hit with an average 4.5% tariff, yet as members of the EU the UK pays more than 5% of the value of the exports to the EU. Not only that but we are currently forbidden from entering into any other free trade agreement.

So I manufacture a widget and export it to the EU and have to comply with CE standards

But my widget has 3,000 componants which I out source

ALL of the components have to comply with EU so all my suppliers have to comply with the EU

What about all the stuff from China you say? Well anything sold into the EU by China must be CE marked so they all have to comply with EU standards

SO that leaves working conditions? Which we know are crap in China and India

So you view is if we leave the EU we can reduce working conditions and compeet with China & India?

Or do you think we will just re brand the EU directivs as UK directives?

And if we do that? and its a given that the immigration situation will not change past some lip service from the govt, what was the point of leaving the security of the EU and spending billions do it?

And the next decade or more we will be focused on not much else when we should have been focused on progress.

I am starting to side with the conspiracy theorists who rightly state the Govts remain campaign was pathetic, Labours remain campaign got virtualy no press coverage and the Govt wanted out so they could use Brexit as a smoke screen to cover up what is to come.

Because if that's not it then I am totally baffelled as to where the upside is.

 

[tackb]

So I manufacture a widget and export it to the EU and have to comply with CE standards

But my widget has 3,000 componants which I out source

ALL of the components have to comply with EU so all my suppliers have to comply with the EU

What about all the stuff from China you say? Well anything sold into the EU by China must be CE marked so they all have to comply with EU standards

SO that leaves working conditions? Which we know are crap in China and India

So you view is if we leave the EU we can reduce working conditions and compeet with China & India?

Or do you think we will just re brand the EU directivs as UK directives?

And if we do that? and its a given that the immigration situation will not change past some lip service from the govt, what was the point of leaving the security of the EU and spending billions do it?

And the next decade or more we will be focused on not much else when we should have been focused on progress.

I am starting to side with the conspiracy theorists who rightly state the Govts remain campaign was pathetic, Labours remain campaign got virtualy no press coverage and the Govt wanted out so they could use Brexit as a smoke screen to cover up what is to come.

Because if that's not it then I am totally baffelled as to where the upside is.

you know you could apply to emigrate to one of the EU country's right ?

I think you'd be much happier unless I've read you wrong and your like all the rest of the remain lot and just like to moan but not actually take control of your own future?