Caliber increase, change shot placement or both?

New Avon Arms
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Gboz

Member
Hi,
Trolled the site but not come up with an exact answer to my queries.
Also spoken to people but got such mixed views!!
I may be over thinking this also.

I’ve had the chance to shoot a new (to me) area for the last 2 seasons.
All Fallow, from high seat, open pasture with woodland boundaries that don’t belong to the permission.
I’ve been using 243 and prefer heart/lung shots.

My issue is that the fallow generally run for 3-4seconds after being hit, on open ground this can be a fair distance and I’ve been out off shooting deer close to the boundaries as they often make the wood and although drop dead shortly after can’t be retrieved (not to mention potential not able to follow up on wounded deer)

I’ve tried multiple bullet heads from 80g - 100g gameking to interlock.

If I upgrade to 7mm / 6.5 sewed / 270 or 308 am I likely to see them drop on the spot - or shortly after with the extra terminal energy, with heart/lung or do I need to shift to high shoulder?

I know the 243 WILL do the job, but has a smaller margin for error than say 270, so have preferred the larger target of lungs.

If I do go heavier caliber and continue with organ shots, will a fragmentable gameking be better than say an interlock which might just pencil through if no bone contact is made…. Or will the extra 800ft/lbs if energy do the job?

I’m not too fussed about meat damage as I don’t use the ribs and tend to mince the front shoulders for my dogs… I prefer the haunch/back-strap

Thanks
 
Chest shot deer run. It's a fact of life and much is posted on internet forums about DRT or dropped on the spot. It happens less that folk claim (in my experience with 243, 260, 6.5-284 and 308). Sure, if you go big then you'll see a difference in terminal performance (but I don't mean 6.5 or 308). Pulling your shot well forward can help but in your circumstances the only way you can be 100% certain is to head/neck them or only shoot them well away from the boundary (or go an have a chat with the neighbour and ask if they have seen today's BBC headlines and if they'd be interested in a collaborative cull plan).
 
With your .243 I suspect that, on fallow, many of your rounds are not exiting, and if they do exit it is not necessarily in line with the entry. There is also a tendency for lighter bullets to follow ribs or other bones around the carcass and that is why, when UK stalkers had less choice of calibres (.243 and .270 were pretty ubiquitous), many stalkers preferred the larger calibre because the smaller "cut about" [tumble] inside the body and consequently to do greater carcass damage. A larger calibre and therefore probably a heavier round is more likely to go "straight through" the animal although not necessarily to exit. The ideal is a round which expands on entry and follows the line of shot but where the bullet is found either under the skin on the far side or has exited but only just having spent all its energy in the carcass. Larger and slower can do less damage than higher velocities with smaller bullets; but then you have to be more aware of range. There's a lot of meat on the shoulders and front end of a deer so saving more of it is good.
Remember the deer have not read the books and although most deer will give classic reaction to (differently) placed shots not all will do so and the more deer you see being shot the more different reactions you will see. [Most of my experience was in Scotland or NW England and with red, fallow and roe.]
This is why people are taught about shooting through a "barrel" to visualise where the internal organs are for shot placement.
Whether a deer is knocked down or runs can depend very much on whether it was suspicious and aware of your presence (or other danger) before the shot and whether it is "adrenalined up" at the moment before impact. The advice in the two posts above is good.
 
Last edited:
Gboz said:
Hi,
Trolled the site but not come up with an exact answer to my queries.
Also spoken to people but got such mixed views!!
I may be over thinking this also.

I’ve had the chance to shoot a new (to me) area for the last 2 seasons.
All Fallow, from high seat, open pasture with woodland boundaries that don’t belong to the permission.
I’ve been using 243 and prefer heart/lung shots.

My issue is that the fallow generally run for 3-4seconds after being hit, on open ground this can be a fair distance and I’ve been out off shooting deer close to the boundaries as they often make the wood and although drop dead shortly after can’t be retrieved (not to mention potential not able to follow up on wounded deer)

I’ve tried multiple bullet heads from 80g - 100g gameking to interlock.

If I upgrade to 7mm / 6.5 sewed / 270 or 308 am I likely to see them drop on the spot - or shortly after with the extra terminal energy, with heart/lung or do I need to shift to high shoulder?

I know the 243 WILL do the job, but has a smaller margin for error than say 270, so have preferred the larger target of lungs.

If I do go heavier caliber and continue with organ shots, will a fragmentable gameking be better than say an interlock which might just pencil through if no bone contact is made…. Or will the extra 800ft/lbs if energy do the job?

I’m not too fussed about meat damage as I don’t use the ribs and tend to mince the front shoulders for my dogs… I prefer the haunch/back-strap

Thanks
Click to expand...
I upped from .243 to .270 for exactly the type of reasons you state. But I had a lot less experience then, and failed to appreciate that the fault lay with me, not my choice of calibre.
This season I have gone back to using the .243 for almost all of my culling (both wild and park fallow), and it has performed perfectly. But I now know a bit more about where to place the bullet than I did previously.
 
Thanks - have read a couple of articles on HILAR, seems to suggest take the centre line of the neck and the centre line of the leg and where they converge is the spot.
 
J@son

Thread 'High shoulder / hilar shot placement... disadvantages?'

I appreciate that high shoulder and hilar shot placement aren’t strictly speaking the same but my question is: why aren’t these shots more popular. Like the classic heart and lungs shot (and unlike a head/neck shot) they allow a reasonable margin of error - producing a reliable kill even if you don’t quite put the bullet where you intended. But they offer a real advantage over an H&L “engine room” shot in that, if you do hit your mark, the deer will likely drop on the spot and will not run on.

Good examples here:



So... what’s the downside? Carcass damage?

Why aren’t...


S

Thread 'Hilar shot location'

I have followed the various discussions around the hilar/high shoulder shot for some time but never used it. I rely on the traditional chest shot and very occasional neck shot from directly behind an animal. I mostly use a 243 with 85gr Nosler Partitions, apparently there are alternatives, over N150. Whilst always recovering my deer I have not been entirely happy with the speed of kill with Red stags they generally run 20 to 100 yards and often in to unhelpful spots. This evening I shot my second red using the Hilar shot placement. Revalation, instant bang collapse with both, should have...
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SD198

Thread '"Hilar shot" - is this the expected reaction?'

Hi all - I have a new permission that requires me to shoot deer so as to keep them from running too far. Not being keen on head/ neck shots I tried out a "Hilar" shot on a roe on another permission recently - and just wanted to check that the reaction from the deer was as is to be expected from a deer shot in that location (and that the location was where it should be).

It was a clear broadside shot and I placed the vertical cross-hair in line with front edge of foreleg, just below half way up body. The deer leap up high with an arched back and landed in a bush before jumping out and...

Here are a few threads to peruse.
I would also try and establish a relationship with bordering landowners with the possibility of gaining permission of following up wounded deer or retrieving carcases.
 
Gboz said:
Thanks - informative reading.
Seems I just need to move my shot 6” and it’ll be a game changer (still fancy another gun tho)
Click to expand...
Looks like you have an itch to scratch mate so get a bigger gun 👍

I shoot .243 and 6.5 Creed (yes...the man bun gun). I prefer to use the creed on the fallow as similar shot placement results in less running (most of the time) if you compare the 2 rifles. However, as has been said the only way to guarantee (or as close to it) is to head or neck shoot (which I prefer not to do), bust the front shoulders (I tend to try and do this with copper) or only shoot the deer when they are away from the boundary (again not practical in many cases).

As was also mentioned see if you can get permission from the adjacent grounds for recovery of shot deer. Calibre wise get a 6.5/.284 or 6.5 PRC (or ....and this pains me...a .270 or .308)
 
VSS said:
I upped from .243 to .270 for exactly the type of reasons you state. But I had a lot less experience then, and failed to appreciate that the fault lay with me, not my choice of calibre.
This season I have gone back to using the .243 for almost all of my culling (both wild and park fallow), and it has performed perfectly. But I now know a bit more about where to place the bullet than I did previously.
Click to expand...
This ^

My last two deer (red stags) hit with a .270 ran...not much, but around 3-4 seconds. Both were shot "well". Last deer hit with .243 ran no more than the .270 ones.
 
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Shooting .308 and if I need a deer to die quickly and I'm out of range of a head/neck shot I'll (try) to pin the shoulders. Drastically decreases the distance they can run.

Thankfully, I know most of the land owners around my permissions so getting access to retrieve is not really a bother
 
Mike1979 said:
See if you can get permission from the adjacent grounds for recovery of shot deer
Click to expand...
I make this a high priority on new permissions.
Learn who your neighbours are. Get their number. Make contact. Leave your card. Ask for permission in principle to recover or despatch dead or injured deer. Take a form letter confirming this and ask them to sign for the avoidance of doubt.
Sometimes this can be done all in one go. At other times a staged approach is wiser. Some people won't give you the time of day.
Positive results let you shoot right up to the boundaries. Very positive results give you more ground.
 
On hilar shots (without wanting to derail the thread), I find a risk is disruption of the gullet, with resulting greening of the upper chest cavity. A lower shot placement disrupts only the pluck.
 
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