Carcase Quality

[mike308]

I totally agree with BP75. I took my level 1 about the same time and the level 2 a few years later.
I did my level 1 with BDS a very good course with two deer for us to watch the gralloch. A few years later I did a game handling course with North West Water where we all had hands on practice.
When I became an AW I had to be sponsored by an assessor and a taken out on a stalk where I had to witness the assessor stalking and culling deer.
Any deer I take to a dealer are done to the best of my ability and have never had any deductions for poor carcass quality.
I have been stalking for 45 years now and still enjoy it although the reds seem to be a lot heavier now!

 

[Selous]

I feel that stalkers can often be their own worst enemy. Many proudly profess to producing well presented carcasses but will not consider attending events to improve their abilities. For me the first stage in producing a good carcass for the game dealer is making a good clean shot yet I know more stalkers who do not practice their marksmanship than those who do. Bringing in regular skills testing would be a positive step in this regard, however I bet many on here would disagree vehemently, presumably because they are worried they may fail !
As many have said there are stalkers out there who think they are producing a quality carcass but have fundamental gaps in their knowledge. For example I was asked by a local stalker who is an AW to help extract a red deer. When I got there the gralloch had been done in the field, the sternum split and the head and legs were long gone. The skin on the inside of the thighs had been cut away so the meat of the haunches were clearly visible. We loaded the beast onto the drag tray and pulled it across the field where a small path crossed the steam. At that point a bucket was dunked into the steam and the chest and abdominal cavity sluiced out with dirty stream water that washed the mud off the belly area onto the meat. Now those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones but I think different choices could have been made to get the beast to the dealer in a less contaminated state. Personally I would like to see more CPD events connected with the presentation of quality venison to the dealer.

 

[big ears]

I feel that stalkers can often be their own worst enemy. Many proudly profess to producing well presented carcasses but will not consider attending events to improve their abilities. For me the first stage in producing a good carcass for the game dealer is making a good clean shot yet I know more stalkers who do not practice their marksmanship than those who do. Bringing in regular skills testing would be a positive step in this regard, however I bet many on here would disagree vehemently, presumably because they are worried they may fail !
As many have said there are stalkers out there who think they are producing a quality carcass but have fundamental gaps in their knowledge. For example I was asked by a local stalker who is an AW to help extract a red deer. When I got there the gralloch had been done in the field, the sternum split and the head and legs were long gone. The skin on the inside of the thighs had been cut away so the meat of the haunches were clearly visible. We loaded the beast onto the drag tray and pulled it across the field where a small path crossed the steam. At that point a bucket was dunked into the steam and the chest and abdominal cavity sluiced out with dirty stream water that washed the mud off the belly area onto the meat. Now those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones but I think different choices could have been made to get the beast to the dealer in a less contaminated state. Personally I would like to see more CPD events connected with the presentation of quality venison to the dealer.

And he is an assessor. Questions who trained the trainers.
Five yearly refresher courses/witnessed stalks would be a good idea

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

And he is an assessor. Questions who trained the trainers.
Five yearly refresher courses/witnessed stalks would be a good idea

Whilst I don’t disagree, there is one big problem in all this, who’s gonna police it?

Because until something happens,/governing body, Pulls it’s finger out and start making some ground rules. It will be carry on regardless!

 

[big ears]

Whilst I don’t disagree, there is one big problem in all this, who’s gonna police it?

Because until something happens,/governing body, Pulls it’s finger out and start making some ground rules. It will be carry on regardless!

That is right and I feel we have gone full circle. The only reason DMQ exists is to fill the coffers of DMQ not to educate and maintain standards amongst stalkers.

 

[Pete6.5]

And he is an assessor. Questions who trained the trainers.
Five yearly refresher courses/witnessed stalks would be a good idea

That's all well and good but the stalkers that are already producing a carcass above the standards needed will be saddle with yet another cost. ( Someone will be very happy setting that test up to make money. Never fail anyone because they don't want to be known as being hard on people or their business model will fail.) The people that are lazy and don't give a **** will still move their substandard carcasses on for some quick cash.
It has to come from the people buying the carcasses to be harder on people. But why would they at the moment it's one of many reasons they can keep the price down.

 

[VSS]

That's all well and good but the stalkers that are already producing a carcass above the standards needed will be saddle with yet another cost. ( Someone will be very happy setting that test up to make money. Never fail anyone because they don't want to be known as being hard on people or their business model will fail.) The people that are lazy and don't give a **** will still move their substandard carcasses on for some quick cash.
It has to come from the people buying the carcasses to be harder on people. But why would they at the moment it's one of many reasons they can keep the price down.

Exactly this ^^^

 

[baguio]

But why would they at the moment it's one of many reasons they can keep the price down.

Is it?
Some of you really need to try processing a carcass for sale yourselves. It's not easy to make a decent hourly rate having paid the standard dealer rate for the carcasses that's for sure!
I do it because 50p/Kg for Munties doesn't make it worth shooting them. I don't enjoy butchery though and it's hard work for low pay!

 

[Pete6.5]

I bet if the game dealer said on your bike when someone is trying to drop off some rubbish they would quickly up their game. Especially if they have the hassle of getting rid of half a dozen carcasses. If the game dealer had a spray dye it would stop them dumping them in a layby on their way home and bringing bad light on deer stalking. I would even make the dealer change the colour of the dye regularly and keep records.
If I was making the rules I wouldn't be liked because I would come down hard on all this.

 

[Pete6.5]

Is it?
Some of you really need to try processing a carcass for sale yourselves. It's not easy to make a decent hourly rate having paid the standard dealer rate for the carcasses that's for sure!
I do it because 50p/Kg for Munties doesn't make it worth shooting them. I don't enjoy butchery though and it's hard work for low pay!

I already do and I already benefit from a higher than normal game dealer price because I promise before the season on quality of carcass.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Is it?
Some of you really need to try processing a carcass for sale yourselves. It's not easy to make a decent hourly rate having paid the standard dealer rate for the carcasses that's for sure!
I do it because 50p/Kg for Munties doesn't make it worth shooting them. I don't enjoy butchery though and it's hard work for low pay!

They dont charge themselves an hourly rate, thats how they make money!

 

[VSS]

I bet if the game dealer said on your bike when someone is trying to drop off some rubbish they would quickly up their game. Especially if they have the hassle of getting rid of half a dozen carcasses. If the game dealer had a spray dye it would stop them dumping them in a layby on their way home and bringing bad light on deer stalking. I would even make the dealer change the colour of the dye regularly and keep records.
If I was making the rules I wouldn't be liked because I would come down hard on all this.

That's quite a good idea actually, for the game dealer to blue stain any carcass that he's refusing to accept because in his opinion it's not fit to enter the food chain. That would nicely prevent the stalker concerned from subsequently selling it another way (ie, through Giving Up The Game).
Use of blue dye is standard practice in the meat industry for anything that's condemned.

 

[baguio]

I already do

So where do you get the idea that prices are kept low because some people sell crap quality carcasses to the dealer? If I was to presnt a carcass with shoulder or saddle damage I will get deductions. You won't though!

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

That's quite a good idea actually, for the game dealer to blue stain any carcass that he's refusing to accept because in his opinion it's not fit to enter the food chain. That would nicely prevent the stalker concerned from subsequently selling it another way (ie, through Giving Up The Game).
Use of blue dye is standard practice in the meat industry for anything that's condemned.

Several years ago I had a red carcass condemned at the game dealers with swollen lymph nodes in the armpits which i would not have found without skinning, all the others were perfectly fine , it was slung and I sprayed the blue die myself!

Even i have to spay my dead chickens with blue die in my dead bins.

 

[Pete6.5]

So where do you get the idea that prices are kept low because some people sell crap quality carcasses to the dealer? If I was to presnt a carcass with shoulder or saddle damage I will get deductions. You won't though!

Because the price is set on the average quality of carcass.
I won't give examples but I'm sure we all know dealers that will take everything at a low price and other dealers that give you a premium for quality.

 

[baguio]

I already do and I already benefit from a higher than normal game dealer price because I promise before the season on quality of carcass.

Absolutely. The game dealer has to pay his staff an hourly rate though! I bet I don't earn much over the minimum wage from my carcass processing. I was very pleased to clear my chiller yesterday by butchering 3 munties. My back is still aching. Kicking myself that I then went out this morning and filled it up again.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I will say running the chiller at 1 deg makes a world of difference to the carcasses if your hanging for over a week.

 

[baguio]

Because the price is set on the average quality of carcass.
I won't give examples but I'm sure we all know dealers that will take everything at a low price and other dealers that give you a premium for quality.

Well I don't I don't know of this. It's a price minus deductions for damage wherever I go. I sell to the one paying the highest price. Please do name names. No names = no truth in it IMO.

 

[big ears]

I bet if the game dealer said on your bike when someone is trying to drop off some rubbish they would quickly up their game. Especially if they have the hassle of getting rid of half a dozen carcasses. If the game dealer had a spray dye it would stop them dumping them in a layby on their way home and bringing bad light on deer stalking. I would even make the dealer change the colour of the dye regularly and keep records.
If I was making the rules I wouldn't be liked because I would come down hard on all this.

What you say would work but would rely on one person checking every new carcass before it is processed (whilst still in the skin) The reality is that will not happen as they don’t want the hassle.
I like the idea but to work will need to be written in law and the GD fined if they don’t comply.
Don’t get me wrong I think 100% GD should block stalkers who present bad carcasses for a 12 month period in the first instance then for ever if it happen again. It would concentrate the mind a bit.

 

[Pete6.5]

Well I don't I don't know of this. It's a price minus deductions for damage wherever I go. I sell to the one paying the highest price. Please do name names. No names = no truth in it IMO.

Why after many years of leg work and meetings would I come on here and tell everyone. It's part of my business and I wouldn't expect you to tell me what you earn from your main business.
I've known a few butchers (not just game) to do very well build very successful businesses and then retired very comfortable but that doesn't go for all.