Changes really are coming in firearms licensing….

[aris]

So basically you may lose your FAC if you are deemed to be in contravention. Speculation, but there are elements of the police who think there should be zero civilian firearm ownership.

 

[enfieldspares]

My brother used to reload and shoot .303 British as did I. Unlike me however he only had his firearms for target shooting. At that time the ONLY component bullets that could be bought were Speer 180 grain soft point round nose bullets. But eventually the likes of Sellier and Bellot would make full metal jacket spitzer shape bullets. So the Speer bullets were abandoned and those not already loaded were chucked in the junk drawer in the garage. Ten years plus later in 1996 the Tories made expanding bullets s5. He had his inspection for renewal in maybe 2000 and the box of five of these component Speer bullets came to light. After fifteen years of being in the junk drawer. Which he had completely forgotten about. As you would. He was prosecuted for it, convicted, and lost his licence and his job. He was a serving twenty-one years of service police officer a few months short of his twenty-two years. So don't ever tell me that the possible consequences to legitimate shooters of these proposed measures will be benign. I doubt it.

 

[AGR]

My brother used to reload and shoot .303 British as did I. Unlike me however he only had his firearms for target shooting. At that time the ONLY component bullets that could be bought were Speer 180 grain soft point round nose bullets. But eventually the likes of Sellier and Bellot would make full metal jacket spitzer shape bullets. So the Speer bullets were abandoned and those not already loaded were chucked in the junk drawer in the garage. Ten years plus later in 1996 the Tories made expanding bullets s5. He had his inspection for renewal in maybe 2000 and the box of five of these component Speer bullets came to light. After fifteen years of being in the junk drawer. Which he had completely forgotten about. As you would. He was prosecuted for it, convicted, and lost his licence and his job. He was a serving twenty-one years of service police officer a few months short of his twenty-two years. So don't ever tell me that the possible consequences to legitimate shooters of these proposed measures will be benign. I doubt it.

They searched the drawers in his garage? That seems like a pretty intensive search, particularly if he was a serving police officer. Very, very bad luck (or a grudge).

 

[zambezi]

They searched the drawers in his garage?

If his garage is anything like mine, some drawers are dedicated to similar category stuff. In all possibility, that was the drawer in which he held his current reloading components. And the old stuff was spotted when he opened the draw to show the new.

Regardless, badly worded legislation can and will be abused. We need to get this right at first time of asking. And that means writing to our MPs in advance of the next reading.

 

[kes]

I dont keep any spare ammo or 'heeds' in the garage - first, I dont have any spare ones even after 50+ years rifle shooting and second I remember the judge who lost his licence for 150 rounds over his allocation which he took off a friend. Assume anything untoward will excite prosecution - whether it is justified or in the public interest matters little I think.

 

[Jeff8861]

So basically you may lose your FAC if you are deemed to be in contravention. Speculation, but there are elements of the police who think there should be zero civilian firearm ownership.

Where did you see or expirence elements of the police wishing to see no civilians with firearms

 

[Dalua]

Where did you see or experience elements of the police wishing to see no civilians with firearms

I think most shooters who look at these things over the years will have seen the Police and the HO supporting legislation whose effects will be solely to reduce the numbers of firearms in the hands of members of the public; or at the very least, to make their ownership and use of them more inconvenient and expensive.

I know it's not quite the same thing - but if you in fact would prefer no civilian ownership of firearms, that is how you'd go about moving in that direction.

 

[timbrayford]

intent is what the CPS will accept to be intent before it even enters a court , the court then have to agree the person had intent. That means very clear provable evidence before it even gets to a court.
It remains a fact that for a gun to be any use it needs ammo, so i cannot see circumstance where a legitimate home loader would fall fowl of this because the CPS aint big on spending lots of taxpayers money on scant / none existent or flakey evidence . In court ? should never even occur, worst case scenario has to be a mad FEO going off on one , a senior officer with an agenda or screw loose passing it on for the CPS another in their office going hell yeah let's spend time and money on this case with zero hard evidence
What this allows is for an FEO to ask you why the heck you need to hold many thousands of component parts when you only shot ten deer in the last 5 years . powder limits and assembled round limits etc will still apply. But there is even no suggestion of having to book bullets onto our FAC

Taking a lead from the criminal community the only safe thing to do if the FEO asks about your stock of component parts is to politely decline to answer.

 

[timbrayford]

Just a couple of points.
If this comes in which it may but I suspect the government has more pressing legislation to go through parliament first.
If it does it will be very hard to enforce, intent is very difficult to prove.
Re the CPS aspect its down to the police firstly to decide wether to prosecute. Re the public intrest test or evidential test. Its likely as with most firearms licensing offences the offence will be summary only. So why send someone to court where they will be in reality fined £100 with £150 costs, it then costs the tax payer 4k, its very disproportionate.
So if your caught breaching the legislation I suspect you will be offered an out of court disposal, the cps and the police have more pressing issues.
Quotes about over zealous feo's or police officers on an anti shooting campaign absolute tosh. Hope this puts the doom and gloomers and conspiracy theorists at ease.

In what way is "authorised quantities" enforceable anyway? It may catch out law abiding but absent minded shooters that have inadvertently gone over their limit, but those who deliberately intend to deceive will have dispersed their stocks in secluded locations.
Surely the recent case of corrupt RFDs supplying the criminal community with usable antiques and loaded ammunition highlights the inadequacies of FLD background checks and lack of activity by CIDs rather than a failing of existing laws?

 

[Bowland blades]

Taking a lead from the criminal community the only safe thing to do if the FEO asks about your stock of component parts is to politely decline to answer.

its only assembled rounds or powder quantities now here in England anyhow . my assembled round allowance is more than i could store without another big safe for the purpose

 

[enfieldspares]

I think most shooters who look at these things over the years will have seen the Police and the HO supporting legislation whose effects will be solely to reduce the numbers of firearms in the hands of members of the public; or at the very least, to make their ownership and use of them more inconvenient and expensive.

I know it's not quite the same thing - but if you in fact would prefer no civilian ownership of firearms, that is how you'd go about moving in that direction.

Like a salami sausage. Slice, by slice, by slice. Until suddenly...and you never noticed at the time...it's all gone.

 

[Jeff8861]

In what way is "authorised quantities" enforceable anyway? It may catch out law abiding but absent minded shooters that have inadvertently gone over their limit, but those who deliberately intend to deceive will have dispersed their stocks in secluded locations.
Surely the recent case of corrupt RFDs supplying the criminal community with usable antiques and loaded ammunition highlights the inadequacies of FLD background checks and lack of activity by CIDs rather than a failing of existing laws?

It's quite simple feo arrived to do your renewal. You are authorised as per your fac to hold say 600 .22 you have 625 words of advice. However if you say you 1500 over the top that's going to be a prosecution. Simply being in possession of 1500 without a certificate.

 

[Jeff8861]

I think most shooters who look at these things over the years will have seen the Police and the HO supporting legislation whose effects will be solely to reduce the numbers of firearms in the hands of members of the public; or at the very least, to make their ownership and use of them more inconvenient and expensive.

I know it's not quite the same thing - but if you in fact would prefer no civilian ownership of firearms, that is how you'd go about moving in that direction.

Is improving the legislation to keep members of the public safe a guise to say they don't want firearms in the civilian population I don't think so. I would say that the majority of the changes are due to cert holders losing the plot, or fld not carrying out a full assessment of the individual. So no evidence of fact that the authorities don't want there to be firearms in the public domain. Strange when shooting sports and associated aspects of it bring in millions into the economy.

 

[Leec6.5]

Which ever way you look at it lads l, we’re buggered!

My 20 year prediction is looking more like 15 now!!!!

Make the most of it while you can.

 

[gixer1]

I think this law was more designed so when the police raid a potential terrorists property and they find 15,000 7.62 bullets and 15,000 brass with powder and primers they can prosecute without the perp being able to say “it’s for my local shooting range use”…..

Although, as usual it’s the law abiding that will suffer more than the criminals.

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Bowland blades]

makes you wonder how stupid our MPs are . I mean we need to produce more food here and some think we dont require firearms ? Pigeon are said to be the biggest agricultural pest and those same folks want to plant more forest than is ever going to survive with pest and deer control in place ?
Nah ! they aint that daft surely ? it only has to sound good , i mean how about SDP standing rock solid on tuition fees as part of the shared government - no compromises LOL that didnt last when they saw what wasnt in the treasury after Blair Brown eh ?
I think we might just loose target shooting because too much travel restrictions on international competition with firearms , it will very likely shrink as Lazer becomes more and more the norm . Pest control and deerstalking, game and wildfowl ? Thats a tough one , especially as very high up in the most popular recreational activities . How many people interested in the deer are their registered on here? How many BASC members and they only have a fraction of those holding licenses

 

[Dalua]

Is improving the legislation to keep members of the public safe a guise to say they don't want firearms in the civilian population? I don't think so.

I think my point is that tragic incidents have been used as opportunities to bring in legislation, often already planned, that has no particular bearing on the relevant incident; but which does make lawful ownership of firearms more difficult.

I would say that the majority of the changes are due to cert holders losing the plot, or fld not carrying out a full assessment of the individual. So no evidence of fact that the authorities don't want there to be firearms in the public domain.

That's what I mean, I think: incidents resulting from inadequate application of existing laws are used as a reason to bring in further, and not necessaily-related, restrictions on lawful shooters. To me, that actually does look like evidence that 'they' don't want firearms in the hands of the public.

Strange when shooting sports and associated aspects of it bring in millions into the economy.

What is?