Cleared land

[white van man]

I'm sure this will have been asked before.
If a piece of land is cleared for .243 for instance and a shooter comes on to it who has an open ticket is it not his responsibility to ensure its suitable for his rifle regardless of calibre.
Steve.

 

[Apthorpe]

I'd think your question should apply to every shooter always. I believe that if you have an open ticket, you're free to decide to shoot anywhere you think appropriate and legal.
The clearing of land is a bureaucratic nonsense dreamt up by some police forces which has no real logical or legal justification at all.

 

[Shootgun]

If you got an open ticket, is up to you to decide if a shot is safe or not, regardless of the caliber the land was cleared for.

 

[Roedeer 1962]

What is the wording on firearms certificate for an open ticket ?

 

[Shootgun]

What is the wording on firearms certificate for an open ticket ?

"the firearms and ammunition shall be used for shooting any lawful quarry and for zeroing on ranges , or land over whivh the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

That's the wording on my FAC...

 

[howy308]

I'd think your question should apply to every shooter always. I believe that if you have an open ticket, you're free to decide to shoot anywhere you think appropriate and legal.
The clearing of land is a bureaucratic nonsense dreamt up by some police forces which has no real logical or legal justification at all.

Closed tickets are usually for new shooters who need a bit of experience, in some cases land can only be shot from high seats and this is when experience comes in. You cannot let all new shooters go out being able to shoot over any land with any calibre.

 

[nun_hunter]

Closed tickets are usually for new shooters who need a bit of experience, in some cases land can only be shot from high seats and this is when experience comes in. You cannot let all new shooters go out being able to shoot over any land with any calibre.

It's all a moot point 're different calibre. A safe backstop for a 243 will be safe for a 308 and if you're talking about missed then a 105 grain a max from a 243 carries about 200ft/lbs more energy than a 110grain from a 308 at 500m so the bullet diameter is pointless when it comes to determining if land is safe or not.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Closed tickets are usually for new shooters who need a bit of experience, in some cases land can only be shot from high seats and this is when experience comes in. You cannot let all new shooters go out being able to shoot over any land with any calibre.

In theory I'd agree, but in reality it's possible to take dangerous shots even on "cleared" land, which is what makes it pointless in my opinion.

 

[kenbro]

I agree with posts #2 & #3.
Regards,Ken.

 

[25 Sharps]

If you got an open ticket, is up to you to decide if a shot is safe or not, regardless of the caliber the land was cleared for.

If you've got a closed ticket it's up to you to decide if the shot is safe or not, regardless of what calibre the land is cleared for!

 

[25 Sharps]

What is the wording on firearms certificate for an open ticket ?

There is no wording, the wording that states you can only shoot over land deemed suitable by the chief of police, is removed.

 

[25 Sharps]

It's all a moot point 're different calibre. A safe backstop for a 243 will be safe for a 308 and if you're talking about missed then a 105 grain a max from a 243 carries about 200ft/lbs more energy than a 110grain from a 308 at 500m so the bullet diameter is pointless when it comes to determining if land is safe or not.

Possibly but I'd disagree, at least it only works in one direction, a backstop that was safe for an FAC air rifle may not be safe for a .22LR, safe for .22Lr may not be for .243, a backstop that is safe for .243 may not be for 338 lap mag. One that is safe for .338 lap mag will be safe for all the lower energy projectiles though.

 

[nun_hunter]

Who is deer stalking in the UK with a 338 Lapua?

Again a 243 shooting an 80grain Barnes TSX bullet will penetrate pretty much anything better than a 308 with a round nose soft lead bullet. Again the bullet construction and velocity is more important than it's diameter. As were talking about police clearing land for sport shooting and not official range use some high energy long range cartridges aren't massively relevant. I have places that are only cleared up to 243 bit once I had an open ticket I could shoot my 308 there. At no point after having an open ticket were the backdrops any less safe using a 308 than they were using a 243.

 

[Wapinschaw]

If you've got a closed ticket it's up to you to decide if the shot is safe or not, regardless of what calibre the land is cleared for!

It does not matter what ticket you have or have not: YOU are responsible for the end result of EVERY shot YOU take, on a range, stalking permission or wherever else.

 

[Chanty Wrassler]

You cannot let all new shooters go out being able to shoot over any land with any calibre.

Why on earth not? New drivers get to drive, and crash into stuff, just about anywhere they like. Similarly for new pilots, outside controlled airspace. New drivers of speedboats and jet skis don't even need to have any training, let alone be licensed, to scud about on just about any piece of water regardless of risk to the lieges.

Why do people in England & Wales put up with this nanny state discrimination? How many people in England & Wales are injured each year as a result of someone else's firearms negligence?

 

[deeangeo]

"the firearms and ammunition shall be used for shooting any lawful quarry and for zeroing on ranges , or land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"
That's the wording on my FAC...

Spot on.
That’s the usual wording on a fully ‘Open’ FAC.
It places the entire responsibility on the holder of such an FAC to decide whether zeroing or taking quarry, if it’s safe or not to shoot.
So if the holder has permission/authority to shoot on ANY parcel of land, the holder deems whether it’s legal or suitable, responsible and appropriate to shoot on.

I also agree with Post#2 and reckon it’s highly probable this is so.

 

[kenbro]

The man that can decide that a backstop is suitable for one calibre but not another, has not been born yet.
Ken.

 

[sikamalc]

Spot on.
That’s the usual wording on a fully ‘Open’ FAC.
It places the entire responsibility on the holder of such an FAC to decide whether zeroing or taking quarry, if it’s safe or not to shoot.
So if the holder has permission/authority to shoot on ANY parcel of land, the holder deems whether it’s legal or suitable, responsible and appropriate to shoot on.

I also agree with Post#2 and reckon it’s highly probable this is so.

As above again correct in the wording on an open ticket. A closed ticket (restricted) will normally always mention land deemed suitable by the chief constable of that county. The onus I believe on him if any accident may occur, to a certain extent.

What I always find amazing is that it is not a requirement to have personal insurance whilst using the firearm. Most do with BASC, NGO, BDS etc but it is not law to have it, nor is it ever asked for by the police to my knowledge.

 

[white van man]

As above again correct in the wording on an open ticket. A closed ticket (restricted) will normally always mention land deemed suitable by the chief constable of that county. The onus I believe on him if any accident may occur, to a certain extent.

What I always find amazing is that it is not a requirement to have personal insurance whilst using the firearm. Most do with BASC, NGO, BDS etc but it is not law to have it, nor is it ever asked for by the police to my knowledge.

I wonder just how many or (hopefully) few people are not insured.

 

[User00025]

As above again correct in the wording on an open ticket. A closed ticket (restricted) will normally always mention land deemed suitable by the chief constable of that county. The onus I believe on him if any accident may occur, to a certain extent.

What I always find amazing is that it is not a requirement to have personal insurance whilst using the firearm. Most do with BASC, NGO, BDS etc but it is not law to have it, nor is it ever asked for by the police to my knowledge.

Your second para is spot on Malc, No Insurance No FAC. This business of cleared land has always baffled me, I don't think it is mentioned in HO guidance. Anyway what does qualify your average FEO to clear land as they usually are the ones inspecting it.
I remember years ago talking to my local Bobby about the Chief police officer approving land and saying how dodgy it was for that officer. Next renewal, condition vanished from everyone in the county that I knew.