Dialled in shooting

PSE Composites Limited - The next level Rifle Stocks
Time to plug Cleckner's book (again!)

Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting: Amazon.co.uk: Cleckner, Ryan M: 9781518654725: Books

Buy Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting 1 by Cleckner, Ryan M (ISBN: 9781518654725) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.
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Another thing to recognise is the fact that the 'manual method' (sighting in and taking notes of how many clicks for each distance) will only be certain under the conditions in which you sighted in.

Don't zero on a hot summer's day in Devon and expect your rifle to be bang on in -10°c on the side of a Munro when out on hinds.

Also, learn to shoot up and downhill and what it does to your corrections.
 
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It's very easy to get bogged down with all this . My advice would be sit , relax and play with the app . Bullet length and BC's can all be found online .
Enter an estimated velocity if it's factory ammo , use the bs on the box and play with validation . It becomes a whole lot clearer with familiarity.
A few minutes on the sofa relaxing with a cuppa and playing with the app may save you a lot of time and ammo at the range . What's more , it's free .
If I can suss it anyone can .
 
caberslash said:
Another thing to recognise is the fact that the 'manual method' (sighting in and taking notes of how many clicks for each distance) will only be certain under the conditions in which you sighted in.
Click to expand...
Need some real knowledge on this thread, not just armchair ballistics experts.

FYI...

A 30 degree C temp shift will change drop by 0.3" (or 0.1 MOA) at 300 yards on my example above

A shift in pressure from 950 to 1050 will create a 0.5" (<0.2 MOA) shift

Increasing humidity from 0 to 100% will have no difference at all

Nobody can shoot to that level with a hunting rifle.

Shoot it, write the numbers down, good to go: is a perfectly valid approach for short range ie all stalking in the UK
 
I prefer to keep it simple but if I really want to fiddle with the scope which I rarely would have the time (and eyesight!) for and with my rifle set at 100 yards zero and 1/4 moa adjustments - 200 yds up 8 clicks, for 300 up 20 (another 12 clicks on top of 200yds). Or just aim 2” and 5” high, near enough for live quarry.
🦊🦊
 
I used to keep all the fancy dope cards stuck all over the place… now I find the ballistic info from my binos is pretty good to 350m. Press button and it give angle adjusted range and click adjustment. Dial and shoot. Obviously I’ve tested it to 350m and it’s pretty good. Works for me! Although you have to use bespoke ballistic info in the binos not generic stuff
 
mealiejimmy said:
I totally agree that it can be confusing.
I recently bought a scope to go on a rifle for longer range vermin control and gongs.
The dials are marked in 1/10 mil increments - which is 1cm at 100m, or 0.9cm at 100 yards
I made up targets using MS word which have a 1cm grid and use them to zero at 100m and another version with a 0.9 cm grid which can be used on a 100 yard range.
in each case 1 click equals 1cm.

Cheers

Bruce
Click to expand...
Not picking on you Bruce. This is a common view. JCS made the point above. It is only confusing because people think about the linear measurement at the target. That is old school and is unnecessary if you have a scope with a modern subtended reticle and matching turrets.

FORGET LINEAR MEASUREMENTS AT THE TARGET.
No need, ever again to think in mm, cm, inches or gnats cocks. Nothing. My favourite scope measures in 1 kGC (thousand gnats cocks) at 266 yards. Who cares. You do not need a grid to zero your rifle.

The reticle is a ruler. You can use it to measure stuff at ANY distance.

To shoot...

Dial in your initial/trial drop and windage in mil/moa.

Shoot.

Use the reticle to measure the error (SFP make sure the scope is on the correct power setting)

Dial in (or hold) the adjustment in mils/moa or whatever the scope uses, kGC.

Shoot.

Repeat

No maths ever. Fast second shots forever. Easy.

MILS and MOA are angular measurements.

1. Listen to the American posters, they have been being schooled in this for the last 15/20 years at least. I recognise some of them from elsewhere and they know what they are talking about.

2. Don't argue ballistics on forums, get into the field and try out some ideas.

3. Put your targets somewhere other than nice multiples of 100 yards. See how that rocks. Try above method then try shooting by converting to mm on the target.
 
Foxyboy43 said:
I prefer to keep it simple but if I really want to fiddle with the scope which I rarely would have the time (and eyesight!) for and with my rifle set at 100 yards zero and 1/4 moa adjustments - 200 yds up 8 clicks, for 300 up 20 (another 12 clicks on top of 200yds). Or just aim 2” and 5” high, near enough for live quarry.
🦊🦊
Click to expand...
I’ve always gone on the proven elevation of each rifle to shoot over a 100, after I got the zeiss with ASV it never got used, until the other day after reading the destructions I started to have a play and I gotta say it’s pretty good, it takes out any up a bit down a bit at the proven ranges, I quite enjoyed having a tinker about with it to get it right, couple of boxes of Ammo later, I feel I can shoot comfortable and humanely out to 300 if needed
1/2 inch either way isn’t going to make any difference to the end result on foxes or deer, but it’s a good accurate way of shooting more proficiently, all my other scopes are normal as are the NV so it’s back to basics most of the time, I’m happy that scope works as it should and it’s a help not a hinderance
 
Overlay said:
I have my .243 on asv and it’s brilliant
i set mine up the hard way, zeroed at a hundred, then shot at 150, adjusted the asv thingy until I got it right then 200 same as then 250 and 300, absolute waste of time & ammo, but the rifle now shoots absolutely bang on the button at any range, I now understand 100% and it was a good exercise and fun doing it

you can use the apps etc etc, but make sure you know your rifle prior to doing it
Click to expand...
This was how real world data was collected before all the ballistic apps were created, a lot of hard work,ammo and math with a touch of Swag. It's always good to learn how to do things the hard way it gives you a chance to learn your rifle and feels more rewarding than typing numbers into your phone(although these apps are time saving and convenient they do take some of the fun out of it)
 
antsa said:
Er....not exactly. The radian, or parts thereof like the milliradian is, just like MOA, an angular measurement not a linear one. 1 mrad at 100m is very, very, very close to 10cm but is never exactly that ;)
A good explanation: Mils vs Minutes of Angle: The Complete Guide - Everyday marksman

Cheers
Click to expand...
No, Sir. Mil is NOT an angular measurement. It describes a length of the circumference of a circle in terms of the radius of this circle. 2xRxPi. It is linear and 1 mil is EXACTLY 10cm on the circle at 100m.
Though you may have referred to the fact that the shortest linear distance between the two end points of this described radian is a less than a fly‘s funk shorter than the radian itself.:tiphat:
 
Danny25790 said:
This was how real world data was collected before all the ballistic apps were created, a lot of hard work,ammo and math with a touch of Swag. It's always good to learn how to do things the hard way it gives you a chance to learn your rifle and feels more rewarding than typing numbers into your phone(although these apps are time saving and convenient they do take some of the fun out of it)
Click to expand...

FUN , is exactly what it should be , it's recreational !
 
antsa said:
Er....not exactly. The radian, or parts thereof like the milliradian is, just like MOA, an angular measurement not a linear one. 1 mrad at 100m is very, very, very close to 10cm but is never exactly that ;)
A good explanation: Mils vs Minutes of Angle: The Complete Guide - Everyday marksman

Cheers
Click to expand...
OK, I agree, but at 100m the length of a 0.1mrad arc is exactly 1cm and the length of the chord is 0.99998cm
Compared to the difference between the often quoted 1 MOA = 1 inch at 100 yards, when it's actually 1.047 inches makes the mrad difference hardly worth bothering about.

Cheers

Bruce
 
mealiejimmy said:
OK, I agree, but at 100m the length of a 0.1mrad arc is exactly 1cm and the length of the chord is 0.99998cm
Compared to the difference between the often quoted 1 MOA = 1 inch at 100 yards, when it's actually 1.047 inches makes the mrad difference hardly worth bothering about.

Cheers

Bruce
Click to expand...
Also, if you pull the chord between the PoA and PoI you must not neglect the fact that the POI is not located on the radian but a tad further outside, which will bring the length of the chord back to 1cm as the distance from the shooter to the POI is the root of 100,000,001cm.
 
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Rider said:
No, Sir. Mil is NOT an angular measurement. It describes a length of the circumference of a circle in terms of the radius of this circle. 2xRxPi. It is linear and 1 mil is EXACTLY 10cm on the circle at 100m.
Though you may have referred to the fact that the shortest linear distance between the two end points of this described radian is a less than a fly‘s funk shorter than the radian itself.:tiphat:
Click to expand...
Mil IS an angular measurement Milliradian - Wikipedia. and what you have described is the length of the arc of a circle subtended by an ANGLE
For small angles (generally less than 5 degrees) the "small angle approximation" is commonly used when it is assumed that the length of the arc and the length of the chord are the same. Small-angle approximation - Wikipedia
As can be seen from my earlier reply, the difference between the length of the arc and the length of the chord for an ANGLE of 1 mrad at a distance of 100m is 0.00002cm (0.0000007inches)
The lines on the targets we shoot are many times wider than that!!!

Cheers

Bruce
 
mealiejimmy said:
Mil IS an angular measurement Milliradian - Wikipedia. and what you have described is the length of the arc of a circle subtended by an ANGLE
For small angles (generally less than 5 degrees) the "small angle approximation" is commonly used when it is assumed that the length of the arc and the length of the chord are the same. Small-angle approximation - Wikipedia
As can be seen from my earlier reply, the difference between the length of the arc and the length of the chord for an ANGLE of 1 mrad at a distance of 100m is 0.00002cm (0.0000007inches)
The lines on the targets we shoot are many times wider than that!!!

Cheers

Bruce
Click to expand...
With regard to the true dustance between the POA and the POI please also consider this.
Rider said:
Also, if you pull the chord between the PoA and PoI you must not neglect the fact that the POI is not located on the radian but a tad further outside, which will bring the length of the chord back to 1cm as the distance from the shooter to the POI is the root of 100,000,001cm.
Click to expand...
So for the purpose of shooting 0.1 mil is indeed exactly 1cm.
 
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