DMC Level 3

[si_b1979]

I wholeheartedly agree with @Dorsettaff and @Deerkeeper2, the creation of this DMC3 accreditation is solving a problem that doesn't exist. And an accreditation is all it is - the learning is paid for separately by the candidate and all the organisers do is assess your cull records and a deer management plan. All for the princely sum of £750, which as people have already said is a lot for the tick in the box.

My main problem is that this will get traction and the 'problem' will start to become a real one once employer's and organisations learn that the accreditation exists and they start to demand people hold it. This will make employment, and even stalking leases even more difficult to attain for your average person - potentially driving them more and more towards deer management contractors. Stalking will then be in the hands of fewer people, who can charge what they want for people to come and stalk - if they even offer the opportunity.

 

[timbrayford]

I did DSC 1 and 2 plus the wild boar add on largely for my own amusement and I'm an admirer of the German jagdschein, but this latest effort I'm sceptical about its worth. In a recent conversation with Hampshire FLD they were of the opinion that all DSC 1 and 2 prove is that "you've attended a course'. Rather a waste of time then?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I did DSC 1 and 2 plus the wild boar add on largely for my own amusement and I'm an admirer of the German jagdschein, but this latest effort I'm sceptical about its worth. In a recent conversation with Hampshire FLD they were of the opinion that all DSC 1 and 2 prove is that "you've attended a course'. Rather a waste of time then?

The German system is the way to go!

That would sort the men from the boys for sure

 

[Chris Richardson]

I wholeheartedly agree with @Dorsettaff and @Deerkeeper2, the creation of this DMC3 accreditation is solving a problem that doesn't exist. And an accreditation is all it is - the learning is paid for separately by the candidate and all the organisers do is assess your cull records and a deer management plan. All for the princely sum of £750, which as people have already said is a lot for the tick in the box.

My main problem is that this will get traction and the 'problem' will start to become a real one once employer's and organisations learn that the accreditation exists and they start to demand people hold it. This will make employment, and even stalking leases even more difficult to attain for your average person - potentially driving them more and more towards deer management contractors. Stalking will then be in the hands of fewer people, who can charge what they want for people to come and stalk - if they even offer the opportunity.

Just like dsc certs then

 

[Happy stalker]

Just like dsc certs then

I think the DSC 1 has been a good thing, it gives a basic introduction into deer management you don’t need to have an FAC to do it, it gives a base line where everything else is built round.
The DSC 2 however has been devalued by reducing the number of stalks, this has made way for this level 3 so I believe this has been self inflicted by the devaluation of the DSC 2

 

[Chris Richardson]

I think the DSC 1 has been a good thing, it gives a basic introduction into deer management you don’t need to have an FAC to do it, it gives a base line where everything else is built round.
The DSC 2 however has been devalued by reducing the number of stalks, this has made way for this level 3 so I believe this has been self inflicted by the devaluation of the DSC 2

Personally I think they’re all money making schemes nothing to choose in them , I don’t like how when the original dsc came out ( woodland stalker cert ) we were assured it wouldn’t be used by police for grants of fac but what do you know it has

 

[Happy stalker]

Personally I think they’re all money making schemes nothing to choose in them , I don’t like how when the original dsc came out ( woodland stalker cert ) we were assured it wouldn’t be used by police for grants of fac but what do you know it has

Aye I get that but there is no doubt it has helped give newcomers an insight, I was one of those stalkers back in the day when my boss asked me if I needed to do this I said no at that point I had been stalking for 2 decades, but later I needed to do it for other people I did enjoy doing it.
There is no need whatsoever for this level 3 nonsense.
Level 1 and the older 3 stalk level 2 was enough in my opinion combined with trigger time and real life deer management experiences

 

[Chris Richardson]

Aye I get that but there is no doubt it has helped give newcomers an insight, I was one of those stalkers back in the day when my boss asked me if I needed to do this I said no at that point I had been stalking for 2 decades, but later I needed to do it for other people I did enjoy doing it.
There is no need whatsoever for this level 3 nonsense.
Level 1 and the older 3 stalk level 2 was enough in my opinion combined with trigger time and real life deer management experiences

We’ll have to agree to disagree I’m afraid o think they’re all money spinning schemes , if they worked we wouldn’t have the deer numbers we have , I think game meat hygiene is a good thing other than that ….

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

We’ve got deer numbers simply because of there isn’t the market for it simple as, if there was a massive market for the venison we wouldn’t have a problem because they get shot and get gone and end of subject but the problem is because we can’t shift it we’re not getting paid a good price for it therefore people ain’t shooting it because they think there’s money in shooting deer and there isn’t and never has been!

I’ve always treated deer as a box of bullets or dinner in the pub nothing more nothing less

 

[Happy stalker]

We’ll have to agree to disagree I’m afraid o think they’re all money spinning schemes , if they worked we wouldn’t have the deer numbers we have , I think game meat hygiene is a good thing other than that ….

Aye, but the high deer numbers in certain areas have nothing whatsoever to do with bits of paper, up here a lot of the problems are location terrain getting access and safe extractions plus no money so really no incentive, aye we will agree to disagree

 

[Happy stalker]

We’ve got deer numbers simply because of there isn’t the market for it simple as, if there was a massive market for the venison we wouldn’t have a problem because they get shot and get gone and end of subject but the problem is because we can’t shift it we’re not getting paid a good price for it therefore people ain’t shooting it because they think there’s money in shooting deer and there isn’t and never has been!

 

[Chris Richardson]

We’ve got deer numbers simply because of there isn’t the market for it simple as, if there was a massive market for the venison we wouldn’t have a problem because they get shot and get gone and end of subject but the problem is because we can’t shift it we’re not getting paid a good price for it therefore people ain’t shooting it because they think there’s money in shooting deer and there isn’t and never has been!

I’ve always treated deer as a box of bullets or dinner in the pub nothing more nothing less

To a point yes I agree but I also think the lack of stalkers willing to put the time and effort in is a big contributor

 

[VSS]

To a point yes I agree but I also think the lack of stalkers willing to put the time and effort in is a big contributor

And stalkers who get ground on the strength of having told the landowner that they'll control/reduce deer numbers, when what they actually do is manage deer in a way that increases numbers. Recreational stalkers want ground with plenty of deer on it, because if they're only doing a few outings each year they want to be sure of finding something to shoot when they are out. So what's in it for them to reduce numbers?

 

[Tim.243]

And stalkers who get ground on the strength of having told the landowner that they'll control/reduce deer numbers, when what they actually do is manage deer in a way that increases numbers. Recreational stalkers want ground with plenty of deer on it, because if they're only doing a few outings each year they want to be sure of finding something to shoot when they are out. So what's in it for them to reduce numbers?

How many have you shot this year Tim (excluding your heard/part time wild ones)

 

[VSS]

How many have you shot this year Tim (excluding your heard/part time wild ones)

Not many. For health reasons. I have been pretty much out of action for months as far as any significant physical workload goes
But I have been buying carcasses from other stalkers in order to keep my throughput up, so in a sense I am indirectly contributing to the number of wild deer shot.

 

[Tim.243]

Not many. For health reasons. I have been pretty much out of action for months as far as any significant physical workload goes
But I have been buying carcasses from other stalkers in order to keep my throughput up, so in a sense I am indirectly contributing to the number of wild deer shot.

What is not many as I am sure like me you have your numbers to hand, what about previous seasons ?

 

[Hazlett]

We’ve got deer numbers simply because ...

In my view... because not enough does are being culled. (Please remember, my only axe to grind in this topic is fallow in southern England.)

There are a number of contributory factors to this. Certainly the venison market is one. The recreational stalker's desire to have deer to shoot would be another. My pet peeve is the general preference for shooting bucks. Stalkers who have full time jobs won't have enough time to cull enough does, whether they're willing or not. And many more.

But one of the factors is lack of education about deer - don't all of you just roll your eyes - there are a lot of stalkers in my 'area', who have their own permissions, who, through their talk and actions, really just don't know enough about how herds of deer populate the place, relate to the landscape and how they impact on the place.

There is without doubt a place for Deer Management Courses for everyone. (It's not often that you read on here of someone having attended one and declaring it to be a total waste of time.)

I don't think this DMC3 is really for 'normal' stalkers - perhaps for landowner co-ordinators; site manager/ stalkers; DMG co-ordinators; etc, it might be more relevant. But there is also a place for coming up with new courses, separate from DMQ - the BDS deer management course, as of 2019, was good, worthwhile but... couched in ideas and language that must have been 30 years out of date (in relation to fallow (and probably muntjac)). As a consequence, I would not consider it a course that would result in better population management decisions for fallow and muntjac. (Ha! Even the course leader said he struggled with the idea of culling a pregnant muntjac.)

Whether you have come up from ferreting, rabbiting, foxing and then deer stalking or whether you come into deer straight away, Deer Management training is a Good Thing for everyone, in my view.

 

[VSS]

What is not many as I am sure like me you have your numbers to hand, what about previous seasons ?

No, I don’t have numbers to hand.
But even if I did, the actual figures would be irrelevant. One man's "few" might be another man's "many", and vice versa.
It's all relevant to the ground. I have stalked some places where to take 6 in a season would be a significant achievement, and other places where 6 in a morning might be the norm.
The important bit is that the level of culling suits the deer population management requirements of the ground, rather than the amount of leisure time available to the stalker.
But recreational stalkers are very reticicent about joining forces to achieve more effective culling if they're unable (or unwilling) to do do it all themselves.

 

[SikaSeeker]

What is not many as I am sure like me you have your numbers to hand, what about previous seasons ?

That’s as good as asking a lady how many times she’s shared a bed with a fella
Or even a farmer how many head of cattle he has

 

[CookM]

RUN!DMC
They told us to...
Walk this way...
Talk this way....