jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
Nope never been stalking with the fella. Have you? Interested to know what he consistently does wrong.
DMC Level 3
- Thread starter Cranborne
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ColinBr
Well-Known Member
Have a look for yourself.
There's been a few threads on it already.
I don't need to go stalking with him. He put it all on YT for everyone to see
ColinBr
Well-Known Member
jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
So he missed one cleanly then snagged his bolt and had a flap then dropped a hind with no issue.
Skipped through to the shooting parts so not really listening to the narrative but all mistakes I’ve seen plenty of times with clients. Yep and I’ve missed had a dead man’s click and lost a beast or two down to poor shot placement. Do it enough ….it happens….. not ideal but it does.
So the bloke films his mistakes and owns up, seen your man Steve Rinnella on meat eater do the same, either lost an Elk or a moose can’t quite remember. Filmed it to explain what can go wrong and show a bit of honesty and integrity. Nothing wrong with that.
I’m dying to meet a stalker who’s never fcuked up a shot. Well one who is honest……
ColinBr
Well-Known Member
Would you want a guy like that trying to tell you, or even worse folks with far more experience how to go about deer stalking?
He missed 2 deer. Not 1!
What he should have done is make sure the next deer he tries to shoot is at a far closer range for his skill set, and also at the very least go and check zero on his rifle.
His guide although obviously under a bit of pressure to come up with the goods for the days video should also have suggested both of the above.
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jimmer.13
Well-Known Member
Have you ever missed, fluffed a shot and lost a beast?
Perhaps he did check zero off camera I wasn’t there so can’t really comment. Last shot did the job though.
Again not sure what his skill set is as I’ve never been out with the chap, are there more videos of him missing or wounding animals?
I get it that he’s marmite to some folks but it depends on how you view it. Is he trying to explain and show that it doesn’t always go right and no one is perfect perhaps?
I’m sure if he made videos showing textbook perfect shots every time, there still be those who would be questioning “what about the ones he missed”
Far worse videos out there on YouTube.
Generally true in many aspects of professional life
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
I have crossed swords with Peter Jones on other products the H&S academy has offered in the past but what I will say most of the things that are on offer are very good.
Take the PDS 1 v DMQ 1 they are not trying to reinvent the wheel, he come's across very well on film its easy to follow, make no mistake they like everybody or organisation is in it to make money, at the end of the day stalkers and hunters vote with there feet and many people I meet have done PDS 1
I would imagine there new deer management DMC3 course is to compete with the BDS deer management course which is a Lantra qualification which I did complete and pass when it was the old five day course,
So is there a market for a higher level of qualification than DMQ 2/PDS 2?
We all know some stalkers who have DMQ 2 and not shot that many deer but on the other hand there are many who cull 100's per year so I guess this DMC3 might will the gap.
again people will vote with there feet.
Take the PDS 1 v DMQ 1 they are not trying to reinvent the wheel, he come's across very well on film its easy to follow, make no mistake they like everybody or organisation is in it to make money, at the end of the day stalkers and hunters vote with there feet and many people I meet have done PDS 1
I would imagine there new deer management DMC3 course is to compete with the BDS deer management course which is a Lantra qualification which I did complete and pass when it was the old five day course,
So is there a market for a higher level of qualification than DMQ 2/PDS 2?
We all know some stalkers who have DMQ 2 and not shot that many deer but on the other hand there are many who cull 100's per year so I guess this DMC3 might will the gap.
again people will vote with there feet.
I got back from Wicklow at the weekend as was out with Irish Safaris on a Sika trip. Now i am no expert and I havent shot thousands of deer but I missed a Sika stag at a reduced range. Learnt from it, moved on and ended up with 8 deer from 6 outings.
We all make mistakes.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
Ahhh the assessor who is being judged by level four assessor, now I bet you several pound notes that if I took one of the assessor assessors deer stalking and rolled over half a dozen red deer and told them there you go me old cocker crack on, they wouldn’t even know one in the red deer from the other to be brutally honest, it’s just icon!
In other words as long as all your paperwork is in order and you have the right signatures in the right place you’re gonna pass because unless anybody can prove to me that a level four assessor actually knows what he’s doing deer stalking wise I use my words again it’s a bloody con!
Deerkeeper2
Well-Known Member
Tony, I can’t see this being any competition for the BDS/Lantra Deer Management Course which is actually a learning course, this new thing is different, it is simply a vehicle for consolidating CPD. A cynical person might say that you could achieve the same thing by getting a ring binder from Amazon and saving yourself £748.
It is nearly twice the price just to register before a candidate has added in the cost of the additional courses required to complete the portfolio. This alone will hugely limit its audience to either wealthy individuals or organisations with annual training budgets that they need to use and don’t really have the depth of industry knowledge to spend wisely.
The requirement to shoot ten deer in twelve months will immediately exclude many of the people that attend other Deer Management Courses as these people are often descision makers and Managers rather than practitioners.
I expect that they will get the ball rolling by giving away some free registrations to the usual ‘influencers’, special interest groups and stalking celebrities to get reviews and content but after that it is only going to appeal to a handful of people a year. This is probably fine as it won’t cost anything to have it sitting in the background, it’s not like they are having to lay on a course with the usual costs and profit/loss risk.
It is good that they have finally acknowledged that they need to engage with proper Assessment and Internal Quality Assurance protocols.
Like a lot of glossy media based things, this is big news for a few days, and will cause a distraction, but I doubt if it will move the needle much in the long term.
Kevgun
Well-Known Member
Exactly that! People spend too much time worrying about paperwork, rather than shooting, It's just putting more barriers in the way, in the meantime the UK deer population is increasing. The best way to get experienced is to go out Shooting them with someone who has done it for years, I done my DSC1 and I didn't learn anything that the guy who I went out with hadn't already taught me.
G0JSM
Well-Known Member
I did my DSC1 when it first came out with no schooling just the knowledge I had and common sense.My pass was 98% the things vI got wrong were stalking dates in England I shoot mostly in Scotland. To me dsc2 was jobs for the boys, Im not knocking the ones that took the test good on you. But level three is just a bloody joke from a bunch of money grabbing know-alls. I'll keep what little of my hard earned cash I have left in my retirement and spend it on my travels to and fro from my ground. If we keep supporting these people then they will keep coming up with more JOBS FOR THE BOYS
long_range_rob
Well-Known Member
Those who can, do.
Those who can’t, teach.
Those who can’t teach copy someone else’s work and sell it as something superior.
I’m out!
Those who can’t, teach.
Those who can’t teach copy someone else’s work and sell it as something superior.
I’m out!
Dorsettaff
Well-Known Member
On a serious note, my concern with these businesses is they have created a product that less informed people don't understand that we actually don't need. There are many many excellent experienced stalkers and managers out there who have never sat in a classroom or undertaken a modular online course and have culled more deer than they can remember. They learnt by experience at the side of some who had also learnt by experience and thus it ever was. Passing on knowledge is a wonderful and admirable thing and I take every opportunity to share my professional experience as a lecturer and mentor in my real life and as a mentor in my countryside life.
I always make a point of explaining to inexperienced tyros that there is no substitute for "trigger time" and every trip is a learning opportunity. I still learn from other stalkers but I don't need a level 5 assessor of an assessor to assess my assessment of the assessed subject...it is symptomatic of this bonkers world in which we live where if you have filled in a form, a chart or a spreadsheet it magically makes you invulnerable to the mistakes that mere mortals and those with less certificates and "courses" obviously make every day.
The reality is that this is a business justifying its price and existence on the back of a problem that doesn't exist. Fairplay...they have identified a theoretical gap in the market......Stalkers obviously don't do enough box ticking compliance and form filling to satisfy any organisation.
My real concern is that this is just another branch of a business that profits from selling stalking. Why would I want to join an "exclusive " club, pay through the nose for a trip down to Dorset and then pay again for anything with antlers when I could pop out onto my ground any time and shoot what I need to shoot to manage the area?
The cynic in me sees a somewhat opportunistic person , perhaps suggesting to a landowner, or a national organisation that those with the DMS Level 4, with oak leaf cluster and bar, are more suited to managing the huge deer problem that a lesser mortal without such, has obviously mis-managed and should be moved on, and be replaced with a slickly presented "deer management" business who will manage all their deer for them...........cue generating income from selling stalking/deer management to those few with the hallowed Holy Grail of Deer Management Certificates.
I see vested interests coveting other people's stalking and looking to profit from such.
Now perhaps if this was run as a non profit making organisation with a clear public statement to say they would not look to assimilate further deer management opportunities , I might, just might be more receptive.
Until then I will continue to rally the workers to break the Ravelling Nancies int'Mill!
I always make a point of explaining to inexperienced tyros that there is no substitute for "trigger time" and every trip is a learning opportunity. I still learn from other stalkers but I don't need a level 5 assessor of an assessor to assess my assessment of the assessed subject...it is symptomatic of this bonkers world in which we live where if you have filled in a form, a chart or a spreadsheet it magically makes you invulnerable to the mistakes that mere mortals and those with less certificates and "courses" obviously make every day.
The reality is that this is a business justifying its price and existence on the back of a problem that doesn't exist. Fairplay...they have identified a theoretical gap in the market......Stalkers obviously don't do enough box ticking compliance and form filling to satisfy any organisation.
My real concern is that this is just another branch of a business that profits from selling stalking. Why would I want to join an "exclusive " club, pay through the nose for a trip down to Dorset and then pay again for anything with antlers when I could pop out onto my ground any time and shoot what I need to shoot to manage the area?
The cynic in me sees a somewhat opportunistic person , perhaps suggesting to a landowner, or a national organisation that those with the DMS Level 4, with oak leaf cluster and bar, are more suited to managing the huge deer problem that a lesser mortal without such, has obviously mis-managed and should be moved on, and be replaced with a slickly presented "deer management" business who will manage all their deer for them...........cue generating income from selling stalking/deer management to those few with the hallowed Holy Grail of Deer Management Certificates.
I see vested interests coveting other people's stalking and looking to profit from such.
Now perhaps if this was run as a non profit making organisation with a clear public statement to say they would not look to assimilate further deer management opportunities , I might, just might be more receptive.
Until then I will continue to rally the workers to break the Ravelling Nancies int'Mill!
bottletopbill
Well-Known Member
With all these courses .
How many more stalkers would we loose and how many working class folks would be able to afford all the cost.
More deer running wild for the toffs.
How many more stalkers would we loose and how many working class folks would be able to afford all the cost.
More deer running wild for the toffs.
Well I shot shed loads before my first DSC1 course with it confirming a lot of people should have checked their kit before they went lol
Happy stalker
Well-Known Member
Hopefully any landowner or potential employer sees through this nonsense, one sunny day doesn’t make a summer, we all know it takes a number of years to become a proficient and productive stalker and the best way into this fantastic industry is by recommendation, so if as many as we can offer free mentoring to keen individuals then maybe just maybe this nonsense will fail, just a thought
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