Electric 4x4’s ?

[RF76]

 

[Bo Diddley]

Another ideological goal that is stiffling the economy to some degree.
A pal who works for UK Power Networks laughs about electric cars. He told me the infrastructure is barely coping at the moment, and would require billions of investment to keep the wheels turning if we moved entirely to EV. He also tells me working for UK Power is money for old rope, they all seem to pull a light harrow.

 

[Cloudhopper]

Interesting. Does anyone know how much duty is paid by the airlines for Avtur/Jet A1?
CH

 

[tackb]

‘It’s all about tax , governments need to tax you for their vanity projects and if you look closely the reason for all the moving of targets is just to keep their revenue stream !

If they stayed with their system then people find ways round it hence the constant moving of the goalposts , got to keep that cash coming in because they don’t want a financially healthy population who isn’t dependant on the government!

 

[Donkey Basher]

Does anyone else watch mutch from that canafian fella, Edison trucks.
Theyre building electric logging trucks as well as heavy haul and drilling well rigging trucks.

Their also working on retro fitting kits for pick ups.
Stick 2 electric axles in and either use the engine or stick a smaller generator motor in instead and it powers the batteries.

From wot ive seen seems to be working and seems a far cleaver idea esp for rural pick ups/work horses.

Not seen the series but the principle is one that some clients of mine were developing some 15 or so years back. They were a small independent family run tech/motorsport business that were trying to bring back an old & historic British motoring name by developing not only an electric super car but also a very simple, very basic modular system for electric driven vehicles.

The idea was a relatively small electric motor in a hub unit at each end of a drive axle, a battery bank & a very small ‘donkey’ engine to charge the batteries as & when required. They had their own test track & a number of development prototypes including an 8 wheeler tipper chassis, a bus, London taxi etc.

As far as I know they were pushed out of the running by the mainstream manufacturers (they were partnered with a European luxury car maker at the time as part of their supercar program I recall) as the technology was too obviously right, but, it wasn't aligned with route they were all pouring big bucks into & was at risk of making it look like their offerings were inferior.

Whilst there are now hybrid vehicles that use electric & ICE their emphasis is a lot more on smaller battery, reduced range on full electric & more reliant on the ICE & the electric as a boost for acceleration etc. (as in F1 tech where the battery provides the boost for overtaking). The stuff these guys were working on was bigger battery cells & trickle charge from the ICE or use it to boost electric if required. Their idea also used modular hub units that could be shared between platforms, eg trucks & buses used one type, cars, vans, taxis used a smaller unit. You could also have single or multiple driven axles simply by swapping a non driven hub for a driven hub.

I don’t think they had any pick ups or SUVs etc but with their principle it’d have been a logical step to use portal axle hubs (they might even have been doing that with the construction wagons I don’t remember) to give addition ground clearance, enhanced by the fact there’d be no central diff to ground out. It’s a pity they didn’t fit the mould that the big boys were using!

As far as EV pickups go, there’s only one I’d even consider & that’s the Rivian, alas not sold this side of the pond! Although got to say the styling on the front end is

 

[Bo Diddley]

It would be nice to have the worlds economy laid out in plain English for everyone to see.
I've watched a clip on YT this morning (The Greatest Financial Crash in History) about the 2008 crash and how the central bank printed trillions to "Save Us"
You can only wonder what is in store.
Forget trillions... it's quadrillions now

 

[Heym SR20]

Application areas where electric power works really well

1) anywhere where you have to truck fuel in a long way, but have ready access to solar, wind or grid electric power. So for a remote highland / island estate an electric quad / side by side or run about works very well.

2) urban / local commuting / delivery transport. But not large cars, but smaller electric bikes / light weight small vans

For 1 and 2 above range doesn’t need to be huge thus keeping weight down.

3) on large HGV’s where you replace a typical retarder with a high torque electric motor / energy recovery unit. So all the breaking energy is captured and then used to accelerate the truck. This produces about 20% fuel savings, and on big trucks burning £100,000 worth of fuel per annum this makes a lot of economic sense.

The above system can also drive additional axles on multi trailer rigs providing additional traction for logging trailers etc.

 

[Hod]

I've no axe to grind in the EV vs ICE debate. Have both, each have their strengths/ weaknesses. Day to day motoring my EV is a far better car than its ICE friend beside it on the driveway. Haven't seen any EV close to being able to replace your typical pick up though. If we get the Slate here that could be interesting (for me). Don't think it can carry or tow big weights though.

 

[countrryboy]

I've no axe to grind in the EV vs ICE debate. Have both, each have their strengths/ weaknesses. Day to day motoring my EV is a far better car than its ICE friend beside it on the driveway. Haven't seen any EV close to being able to replace your typical pick up though. If we get the Slate here that could be interesting (for me). Don't think it can carry or tow big weights though.

I think the Edision conversions will be pretty good.
Not sure quite how they will cope with uk pick ups as most are so modern. Hes talking about retro fittibg it into trucks from 60,70s and 80s
And im pretty anti EV cars, well atleast being forced on us anyway.

Heavy equipment and diesel trains have been using a mix of diesel engine and electric drive axles since the 1950s or so.

He is quite active of social media.
Just a normal wagon driver got sick of waiting for his Telsa truck to come so built his own!!
Dont think Telsa got their truck of the line yet either.
So designed built a few prototypes, built a factory and sold his 1st truck while stilk waiting on Telsa
Pretty impressive really byilding a couple of working prototypes out off a poly tunnel.
His aim is 1 million miles without major break downs.

His other big thing is right to repair.
Which is a major gripe of mine with modern motors.
Pretty much where possible parts are just bought off the shelf of local motor store.
So no fancy moulded indicator switches.
Bit like the old days in uk, when numerous companies would use Landy brake cylinders etc or a Leyland 'x'

And anything 3D printed they wilk give u the design and get anyone to print it for u.
Any error codes flash up u will have a manual listing them and ****ible causes.
No paying a garage £100 just to plug car into computer.

The boy seems to talk a lot of sense and wot a difference an owner operator and hobby mechcanic running it compared to engineers and aerodynamic artists.

 

[countrryboy]

The way its being built is interesting what I don't know is exactly how power is delivered to the ground. I run Komatsu mining trucks with electric wheel motors and I assure you when it gets slick they can be treacherous.

From wot i can gathertheir just using standard electric axles that other EV cars use.
Really the way i understand it theonly difference between a nirmal EV is u have a mobile chargibg generator with u and it can charge as u drive.

Wot do u mean too much torque?
Just spinning wheels when things are slippy?

I think EV cars may have that problem already.
I mind asking an FC forester why he didnt follow me down a mossy but hard road. Both in 2wd wee vans, he said his EV would never get back out.
And heard similar from local polis they have some EVs now and say terrible in the snow.

 

[Donkey Basher]

Just watched a couple of his videos on YouTube - the one about pick ups & the first load hauled in ‘Topsy’ the electric truck. Both very impressive but left me with some reservations re the pick ups.

The pick ups use two motors, one driving into the differential on each axle so no gearbox, transfer box or prop shafts to worry about getting damaged by the torque (UJ’s are apparently a very weak link in normal EV conversions).

What did strike me about the pick ups was that there was a LOT of space needed for batteries, controllers, coolers, etc. On the Dodge these were all visible below the bottom of the chassis rails making them a hindrance to ground clearance & a risk of damage due to grounding in anything that doesn’t have sufficiently high clearance. In the 79 series LC there was a MASSIVE cooler in the pick up bed which they said was from a truck & would be down sized so it could sit between the chassis rails behind the rear axle, but it’s still a lot of ‘gubbins’ to have sat in an area that is likely to get whacked when properly off road & covered in mud too.

As others have said too, I’m not sure how they’ll work with modern trucks that have traction control etc rather than mechanically locking diffs etc.

Any hoo will certainly be watching a few more of his videos when there’s naff all but repeats or carp films on the gogglebox over Xmas!

 

[Freeforester]

It would be nice to have the worlds economy laid out in plain English for everyone to see.
I've watched a clip on YT this morning (The Greatest Financial Crash in History) about the 2008 crash and how the central bank printed trillions to "Save Us"
You can only wonder what is in store.
Forget trillions... it's quadrillions now

A million mm gets you 1km
A billion mm gets you from Norfolk to London and up to Invernes plus (1000km)
A trillion mm gets you a very fat pocket rule, and a trip from Norfolk to the moon and back, with about 5 abd a half times round the planet, before tea time. It might be cold, mind..

The inconvenient facts about the net zero drive:

 

[countrryboy]

Just watched a couple of his videos on YouTube - the one about pick ups & the first load hauled in ‘Topsy’ the electric truck. Both very impressive but left me with some reservations re the pick ups.

The pick ups use two motors, one driving into the differential on each axle so no gearbox, transfer box or prop shafts to worry about getting damaged by the torque (UJ’s are apparently a very weak link in normal EV conversions).

What did strike me about the pick ups was that there was a LOT of space needed for batteries, controllers, coolers, etc. On the Dodge these were all visible below the bottom of the chassis rails making them a hindrance to ground clearance & a risk of damage due to grounding in anything that doesn’t have sufficiently high clearance. In the 79 series LC there was a MASSIVE cooler in the pick up bed which they said was from a truck & would be down sized so it could sit between the chassis rails behind the rear axle, but it’s still a lot of ‘gubbins’ to have sat in an area that is likely to get whacked when properly off road & covered in mud too.

As others have said too, I’m not sure how they’ll work with modern trucks that have traction control etc rather than mechanically locking diffs etc.

Any hoo will certainly be watching a few more of his videos when there’s naff all but repeats or carp films on the gogglebox over Xmas!

I have to admit most of wot ive seen is more about the artics rather than pick ups.
The way he speaks and thinks makes sense to me.

I think the pick ups only came about as so much interest in the concept.

Aye u could be right that could be a big flaw with retro fitting, ur trying to fit stuff into a space never designed for it.
Surprising how much space their is below the tub on a pick up, must be 12-18" between the axle and tub.

The other problem i can see with uk pick ups is how intregated and moulded the dashes are. So many electrics tied in might be hard to plumb the new dials in.

Im sure they could make some sort of guarding etc to overcome damage and water problems.

Possibly they need some uk/european kit car comoany to take the concept and develop a custom made 1 from scratch/chasis up.

But to be honest seems a lot of faff for very little benefit being forced on us.
Modern pick ups are getting 40+ mpg, i had 45+ on a long mway journey in a 10yr old L200 just sitting at 60 odd

 

[NP435]

From wot i can gathertheir just using standard electric axles that other EV cars use.
Really the way i understand it theonly difference between a nirmal EV is u have a mobile chargibg generator with u and it can charge as u drive.

Wot do u mean too much torque?
Just spinning wheels when things are slippy?

I think EV cars may have that problem already.
I mind asking an FC forester why he didnt follow me down a mossy but hard road. Both in 2wd wee vans, he said his EV would never get back out.
And heard similar from local polis they have some EVs now and say terrible in the snow.

the Komatsu does not have a differential, and that is the problem when applied dynamic braking ( think locomotive reverse polarity) easy to spin . Off camber situations make things more interesting.