EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

[BryanDC]

That isn't an effective argument against the use of lead in clay-shooting, which was the sub-discussion, raised by @urban, upon which you intervened.

Incidentally, is it correct that Tungsten shot was outlawed in Denmark (in addition to lead)? Someone mentioned it to me recently, and it was the first I knew of it.

It was more that you and Liveonce said you wouldn't mind living on top of it. It was more curiosity than anything.

As far as I am aware Tungsten is not banned here. I just had a quick look and I can find Kent cartridges and Remington Hevi-shot for sale.

 

[BryanDC]

Trying to look for more info. It seems tungsten was on the way to being banned back in 2013 or 14 but it never happened.

 

[CarlW]

It was more that you and Liveonce said you wouldn't mind living on top of it. It was more curiosity than anything.

As far as I am aware Tungsten is not banned here. I just had a quick look and I can find Kent cartridges and Remington Hevi-shot for sale.

Thank you. I thought it sounded odd.

This is the article he sent me from 2014. Presumably the Tungsten ban did not go ahead if you are able to buy it there.

Danes to ban tungsten

Explore Danes To Ban Tungsten with Shooting UK. Get the latest shooting and gundog news, expert analysis, and field updates from across the UK.

www.shootinguk.co.uk

 

[Liveonce]

It was more that you and Liveonce said you wouldn't mind living on top of it. It was more curiosity than anything.

As far as I am aware Tungsten is not banned here. I just had a quick look and I can find Kent cartridges and Remington Hevi-shot for sale.

However I would not be living on top of it for long, once the millions roll in I would be in my country estate, my second home in the sun or on my very large yacht.

Personally can see very little future for tungsten based shot, just to expensive and the wrong use of a rare earth metal to ever replace lead shot. Niche use by some only.

 

[BryanDC]

Thank you. I thought it sounded odd.

This is the article he sent me from 2014. Presumably the Tungsten ban did not go ahead if you are able to buy it there.

Danes to ban tungsten

Explore Danes To Ban Tungsten with Shooting UK. Get the latest shooting and gundog news, expert analysis, and field updates from across the UK.

www.shootinguk.co.uk

Everything I can find is from that time as well, so it looks like it never happened.

 

[BryanDC]

However I would not be living on top of it for long, once the millions roll in I would be in my country estate, my second home in the sun or on my very large yacht.

Personally can see very little future for tungsten based shot, just to expensive and the wrong use of a rare earth metal to ever replace lead shot. Niche use by some only.

It sounds more like a strip mining operation.

 

[urban]

I was just saying that I'm personally very uncomfortable that my club deposits several tonnes of lead across a small area of woods and fields each year. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me. But you cannot pretend that my concerns have zero basis, nor that I'm unusual in having them. I think that I'm far from being alone in wanting to enjoy my shooting, which I love, with a reasonably clear environmental conscience. We're a responsible bunch of people, firearms owners, and part of that, for me, is being responsible for my impact on the environment.

I'm sorry if "heavy metal contamination" feels like a loaded term. It was not my intent to trigger emotions by using it. It's just objectively what it is. When old factories are demolished the sites are often contaminated by heavy metals and this constrains what you can do with the land until it is decontaminated.

The level of contamination on a site used for clay shooting is such that you would have to be a very irresponsible parent to allow young children to be unsupervised while on the land. I think any person with even a slightly open mind would have to agree with that - children put stuff in their mouths and ingested lead is harmful to children's development. So I'm just saying that it doesn't feel like a responsible thing to do to deposit a couple of tonnes of finely divided toxic metal, every year, over some fields and woods.

No?

 

[CarlW]

I was just saying that I'm personally very uncomfortable that my club deposits several tonnes of lead across a small area of woods and fields each year. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me. But you cannot pretend that my concerns have zero basis, nor that I'm unusual in having them. I think that I'm far from being alone in wanting to enjoy my shooting, which I love, with a reasonably clear environmental conscience. We're a responsible bunch of people, firearms owners, and part of that, for me, is being responsible for my impact on the environment.

I'm sorry if "heavy metal contamination" feels like a loaded term. It was not my intent to trigger emotions by using it. It's just objectively what it is. When old factories are demolished the sites are often contaminated by heavy metals and this constrains what you can do with the land until it is decontaminated.

The level of contamination on a site used for clay shooting is such that you would have to be a very irresponsible parent to allow young children to be unsupervised while on the land. I think any person with even a slightly open mind would have to agree with that - children put stuff in their mouths and ingested lead is harmful to children's development. So I'm just saying that it doesn't feel like a responsible thing to do to deposit a couple of tonnes of finely divided toxic metal, every year, over some fields and woods.

No?

A child would need to eat a heck of a lot of soil. Lead would be the least of my concerns...

 

[Leec6.5]

What we have is the middle aged and older generation stuck in their ways and are unprepared to change their habits.

let the younger generation decide the fate of the non toxic debate!

but hang on a jiff, unless we do make a change there might not be shooting available for the younger generation!

 

[CarlW]

What we have is the middle aged and older generation stuck in their ways and are unprepared to change their habits.

let the younger generation decide the fate of the non toxic debate!

but hang on a jiff, unless we do make a change there might not be shooting available for the younger generation!

That's not a substantive contribution to the debate, Lee. It is simply a suggestion to exclude from the debate those people who disagree with your point of view.

 

[kes]

Let the younger shooter decide ? What twaddle but typically undemocratic and totally unrealistic are you related to CP in deed if not genetically - most certainly.

There is a phrase which states " youth is wasted on the young", experience and youth are rarely close bedmates.

 

[urban]

A child would need to eat a heck of a lot of soil. Lead would be the least of my concerns...

I'm not sure of my calculation, but if you assume the ground is 1km square then there's about 125g of lead per square metre. It won't be evenly distributed, obvs, so there will be some parts where the soil is literally lead!

 

[Liveonce]

I was just saying that I'm personally very uncomfortable that my club deposits several tonnes of lead across a small area of woods and fields each year.

Be careful what you wish for, not sure of the definitive position on the dangers of steel shot bouncing back from trees but if it does and presents a serious risk of harm you may find your club actives are at best restricted to the fields or worst no longer viable.
Anybody know the risks regarding steel shot, I know some clay grounds will not allow it.

 

[kes]

Its probably toxic to wildlife, yet to be established .

 

[Dunwaters]

Its probably toxic to wildlife, yet to be established .

It was definitely toxic to a couple of pheasant last season.

 

[Liveonce]

Just been reading the basc magazine that landed today, it needs a new title: The BASC pro steel magazine

Quote “I will not be depositing several pounds of a poisonous heavy metal onto the Shropshire countryside each season” Bill Harriman basc director of firearms.

Shows just how far they have U turned on lead. Can they survive if they fail to deliver their goal of all live quarry shot with non toxic shot and biodegradable wads at the end of the transition period?

P.s they also yet again mention Denmark but always forget to say they limit game shooting to 30mtrs.

 

[CarlW]

I'm not sure of my calculation, but if you assume the ground is 1km square then there's about 125g of lead per square metre. It won't be evenly distributed, obvs, so there will be some parts where the soil is literally lead!

Do we have any data on the quantities of lead absorbed by these soil-eating children on their (presumably frequent?) visits to clay-grounds past-and-present to sate their plumbic appetites?

 

[kes]

BASC as anyone can see, are self-justifying.
Amazing how Bill Harriman has only now developed a conscience about the lead he says is a " poisonous heavy metal". Naturally he has been looking st all the evidence for along time and now found irrefutable truth. For me this 'on message' comment is neither truthful nor correct but then again this is BASC - perhaps he's looking to justify his promotion ?
Swift's position on lead nearly blew -up BASC and yet here we are a mere 3/4 ? years later.
People still see them as supporting shooting, being the loudest voice in support of shooting and worth joining-------- it takes all sorts.

 

[Liveonce]

People still see them as supporting shooting, being the loudest voice in support of shooting and worth joining-------- it takes all sorts.

Well I am hanging on their by a thread.

Have they pushed the self destruct button this time? Expecting all who shoot live quarry to change to NTS and Biodegradable wads whilst a cheaper lead shot alternative is available.
The big day game shooters may be as cartridges cost are not a significant part of the days costs, but pigeon shooters, etc really, will they jump.

Or is it a clever move on their part to turn the failure back on us the shooters and say well it’s your fault now we cannot stop a legal ban on lead you had your chance didn’t you.

 

[Liveonce]

BASC as anyone can see, are self-justifying.
Amazing how Bill Harriman has only now developed a conscience about the lead he says is a " poisonous heavy metal".

He would say that the non poisonous cartridges have only just become available to use, however if he really felt so bad and guilty about it he could have always refrained from shooting.