EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
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Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Given that fewer than 10% of young people have the capacity to understand the issue and only a minorty of young people actually value being allowed to decide anything, it seems rather bizarre to let the ignorant decide.
Of course, skewing decisive power to the young has been hugely successful in Scotland.
Personally, I've never noticed any correl
Only around 40 children per year get lead poisoning from all causes. No child has ever been found to suffer lead poisoning from lead shot.
It's a totally irrational change to make when so many greater sources of harm exist, whuch could be dealt with for less negative impact and more payoff.
Once we cede lead, antis will move straight onto getting propellants banned on the grounds of their extremely high NOx emissions - but don't worry, we'll still be fine because we can always adapt and move on to new technology - ammunition with no bullet and no means of propulsion. We just load a case into the chamber, say "bang" and (as the quarry wanders off) imagine the quarry is dead, imagine the crops and forestry are protected, pick some grass and go home for a lovely meal of imaginary venison (or other game) made from boiled grass.
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
I left BASC a long time ago. Unfortunately I don't think any of our shooting organisations are worth backing.
Oh dear I will phone my GP in the morning.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
And yet tens of thousands of Brits die every year from obesity-related illnesses, after a childhood of being force-fed sugar-sodden processed sh1te. Personally, I think I'd rather take my chances elsewhere and join in with this supposed new craze for feasting upon soil at clay-grounds.
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
Don't knock it until you've tried it. I like my coffee freshly ground after all.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
The Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust (GWCT) is currently running a short, anonymous survey on peoples' experience of using lead ammunition alternatives and any barriers people have found towards using non-lead ammunition.
Please take part in the survey, sign up to the GWCT's newsletter and support GWCT as a member. Click the link below to find out more and to have your say.
Please take part in the survey, sign up to the GWCT's newsletter and support GWCT as a member. Click the link below to find out more and to have your say.
The Game and Wildlife Conservation Trust (GWCT) is currently running a short, anonymous survey on peoples' experience of using lead ammunition alternatives and any barriers people have found towards using non-lead ammunition.
Please take part in the survey, sign up to the GWCT's newsletter and support GWCT as a member. Click the link below to find out more and to have your say.
Conor the GWCT survey fails at the very first question! why do shooting organisations only think about game shooting?
YOUR transition is to stop using lead shot and non biodegradable wads for ALL live quarry shooting, not just game.
Yet the GWCT question does not ask if you shoot, pigeon, rabbits etc, or if you don’t shoot game at all, or if the non toxic shot cartridges you tried or are using are made with biodegradable wads.
Really is this the best we can do for a survey? If so we really are heading for a bloody big cockup at the end of the transition period.
P.s just noticed the survey is being run by surveymonkey which very pertinent as it was created by monkeys.
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Conor, you look to not have got a clue or any understanding on what is happing with the take up of non toxic shot with biodegradable wads you are just preying that if you keep pumping out the “benefits” of non toxic shot and biodegradable wads that the message will somehow result in ALL live quarry shooters using them.
Did you actually have a plan when the announcement was made on how this would be implemented and monitored year on year? Did you engage with the Manufactures of the cartridges (guess not from their response at the time).
Was it really just a suck it and see venture in the name of saving big day game shoots?
Do hope you have a get out of jail card for when the transition period ends, but I guess you have not thought that far given current performance.
Please prove me wrong, publish a nice pie chart showing the percentage of non toxic cartridges with biodegradable wads that were sold over the last twelve months and also lead shot in both fibre and plastic wads. Do this for cartridges types marketed for all live quarry shooting. Then repeat again every 12months.
Your members deserve such transparency.
Did you actually have a plan when the announcement was made on how this would be implemented and monitored year on year? Did you engage with the Manufactures of the cartridges (guess not from their response at the time).
Was it really just a suck it and see venture in the name of saving big day game shoots?
Do hope you have a get out of jail card for when the transition period ends, but I guess you have not thought that far given current performance.
Please prove me wrong, publish a nice pie chart showing the percentage of non toxic cartridges with biodegradable wads that were sold over the last twelve months and also lead shot in both fibre and plastic wads. Do this for cartridges types marketed for all live quarry shooting. Then repeat again every 12months.
Your members deserve such transparency.
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This lead free stuff is something that I find fascinating. Ok in one rifle I use lead free ammo, it works well, in others and my English sidelock I use lead. We talk about lead killing people, well it does if you use a tube and the right propellant but I have my doubts about it's doing so by lead shot or lead deposits in game.
If one takes a ride up one or two dales, e.g. Weardale one sees the remains of lead mines. The keepers and farmers in the area seem to me remarkably healthy yet the amount of rubble (which must contain lead as it came out of lead mines) in rubble walls and lying about, and the underground deposits hasn't seemed to affect them at all.
It is all a very confusing argument, but for my money the amount of lead shot on earth or dust in carcases is of no consequence when you look at say emissions from any plastic recycling chimney. The whole lead debate is definitely a WOKE thingy.
If one takes a ride up one or two dales, e.g. Weardale one sees the remains of lead mines. The keepers and farmers in the area seem to me remarkably healthy yet the amount of rubble (which must contain lead as it came out of lead mines) in rubble walls and lying about, and the underground deposits hasn't seemed to affect them at all.
It is all a very confusing argument, but for my money the amount of lead shot on earth or dust in carcases is of no consequence when you look at say emissions from any plastic recycling chimney. The whole lead debate is definitely a WOKE thingy.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Can’t speak for weardale, but lead sitting in the background doesnt cause a problem per se. Its when lead gets into the human body that problems start. The simplest ways are either breathing in lead compounds in dust, fumes etc, or ingestion in water, or via lead and lead compounds being eaten.
Certainly up here in Scotland there is plenty of lead naturally occuring. You will find in plenty of rural properties that are not on mains water have a tap in the kitchen for drinking water with special filters to remove lead from the water.
And in such lead may actually be causing a few problems, but it is not being looked for. It manifests itself in children through delinquent behaviour, below par academic performance etc and in older people as dementia’s, cancers etc etc
What the studies have shown is a correlation between higher than normal lead levels and prevelance of blood cancers. But medical practice has long been about treating symptoms rather looking for the cause.
My view is that I do not want to eat lead, nor feed to my family or animals. Thus I now lead free bullets in my rifles, have bern using steel for Wildfowling, and now that more widely available steel shot for older guns, i will use those when shooting game birds.
Guess how my mains water comes into my house. A lead water main.
Spoke to the water board about changing it.
They came out and took samples and said it was fine, but if we wanted to change it we could.
And I’m guessing that there are thousands of people drinking there water through a lead pipe/water main. And no one says a thing.
What we are dealing with is a media driven thing. I’m not saying we shouldn’t do it, I’m already gearing up to make the change. And I had an email from the game dealer letting us know there now under pressure to only take deer shot with non toxic. So now it’s no choice.
So if you’re thinking of stocking up on lead hunting ammo and you shoot a larger amount of deer and need a game dealer you had better stop buying lead and start looking at alternatives.
Spoke to the water board about changing it.
They came out and took samples and said it was fine, but if we wanted to change it we could.
And I’m guessing that there are thousands of people drinking there water through a lead pipe/water main. And no one says a thing.
What we are dealing with is a media driven thing. I’m not saying we shouldn’t do it, I’m already gearing up to make the change. And I had an email from the game dealer letting us know there now under pressure to only take deer shot with non toxic. So now it’s no choice.
So if you’re thinking of stocking up on lead hunting ammo and you shoot a larger amount of deer and need a game dealer you had better stop buying lead and start looking at alternatives.
I quite enjoy a jam donut every now and then
As I say interesting, because I am sure lead is actually in the ground water where deposits occur. This will be ingested by folk in that area through drinking water and of course into stock which we eat and wildlife which drink from streams springing from the lead sub strata and the fish stocks in some of the rivers. Having had lead water pipes for the majority of my life and also spring water through the taps, I'm knocking 80 without real signs of dementia
I do find some of these statements made quite amazing The funniest thing is there's a group of my contempories who are all similar age and circumstance. Agreed some have cancer but we all put that down to smoking or agricultural chemicals in our foodstuffs. We were educated correctly or taught as a whole class and only the odd one was mildly delinquent, so why should lead suddenly become responsible for those things? So sorry but we must beg to differ on this.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
It’s not so much lead is suddenly becoming responsible, it’s that there are now scientific studies being carried out that are linking lead exposure to underlying conditions.As I say interesting, because I am sure lead is actually in the ground water where deposits occur. This will be ingested by folk in that area through drinking water and of course into stock which we eat and wildlife which drink from streams springing from the lead sub strata and the fish stocks in some of the rivers. Having had lead water pipes for the majority of my life and also spring water through the taps, I'm knocking 80 without real signs of dementia
You can draw an analogy with cigarettes - for many years nobody was really concerned about long term effects of smoking. Cigarettes were issued in ration packs as they kept up the moral of troops. Nicotine gives you energy, staves of stress, reduces aches snd pains, staves off hunger and gives troops the ability to keep going. 30 odd years ago every smoked on trains, in offices, in the pub etc. But we now know the long term consequences of smoking and youngsters don’t think cigarettes are cool.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
You keep casually linking (by correlation; no more, if I understand you correctly) lead and leukaemia; yet you have zero evidence of a link between lead-shot game and said (or indeed any other) condition. Or have I misunderstood?
Tell me about smoking!!! I smoked for 50 years. I can guarantee it doesn't give you energy or moral support but it gives relief after an exciting event shall we say. Funnily enough the only ones I see smoking now are the kids, well the under 40's.
When someone can unequivocally prove to me that lead in game or venison has caused problems to health I may believe you but in my lifetime it ain't.
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