FAC grant (Scotland) issues

[25 Sharps]

I’m sure plenty will disagree with me but I can actually see where the Police are coming from.

They are asking if you really have ‘good reason’ to obtain a firearm just now or whether you just want one as you’re getting into stalking and it’s all part of the stuff you think you ‘need’ at this stage.

If the estate rifle clause is in place and sufficient and you don’t have ground but have some future stalks booked (which can also be cancelled) it’s a tough one to argue against.

I get that it can feel like chicken and egg however I’m pretty sure the FLO’s have to deal with several renewals every month from people who have been granted FAC under similar circumstances who didn’t really need a FAC and have purchased one box of ammunition which is still half full after 5 years as they’ve done three paid stalks (if that) and are often the same people moaning how expensive it is to do paid stalks and/or how expensive syndicates are etc but have a nice shiny £3k rifle and optics package in the cabinet.

The guidance clearly states that stalking by invitation, paid or unpaid, is deemed good reason to possess a rifle.

Plenty of people have FACs on paid stalking alone.

 

[Heym SR20]

Reading through the above thread makes me feel very lucky to have the excellent FEO's in Perth/Perthshire. I can honestly say that I have never encountered a single issue with any renewal/grant/variation process that I have been through over the years. They are helpful, informative, professional and consistent.

I would second this, albeit I am a bit further south than Perth. Also as an officer of an approved rifle club, I have also found the staff to be helpful, informative and professional. We do have to interact with them quite regularly.

What does amaze me though is how many actually lie on their applications or renewals. A few times a year our Secretary gets an email or a call asking to confirm that Walter Mitty is an active member of your club…

And our response has to be, either “no - we have never heard of him”, “he enquired, turned up as a probationer once and never seen again” or “he joined as a probationer a number of years ago but never became a member and we haven’t seen him again”.

None of which exactly qualify as an active member. Not sure how well Walter Mitty’s application or renewal went.

 

[User00056]

What does amaze me though is how many actually lie on their applications or renewals.

It baffles me why anyone would think they can pull the wool over the eyes of FEOs

 

[Heym SR20]

It baffles me why anyone would think they can pull the wool over the eyes of FEOs

Knowing a few former police officers, including an FEO, I am not at all surprised. They do have a difficult job to do, and the individual officers, or their close colleagues will have dealt with the consequences of when it goes wrong and have had to clear up the mess. They quite rightly do ask searching questions about your good reasons for wanting to possess firearms. If you don’t want to answer such questions, obey the law or disassociate yourself from the Police’s more usual clients then don’t waste your time applying for an FAC.

 

[Chris Richardson]

Knowing a few former police officers, including an FEO, I am not at all surprised. They do have a difficult job to do, and the individual officers, or their close colleagues will have dealt with the consequences of when it goes wrong and have had to clear up the mess. They quite rightly do ask searching questions about your good reasons for wanting to possess firearms. If you don’t want to answer such questions, obey the law or disassociate yourself from the Police’s more usual clients then don’t waste your time applying for an FAC.

i quite agree however carcass prep and storage isnt one of those good reasons , we need to guard against further restrictions or where does it end ? nobody without a larder gets an fac grant ??

 

[Subsistence]

Update time,

As suggested by @Blaser243 I submitted a FOI request regarding how man certificates had been issued in the last 5 years with paid stalking as the main reason. Whilst they did come back with a number for how many FACs had been issued they could not tell me how many where for paid stalks, as that would involve manually going through every application to check, something that would cost far more than the maximum £600 budget they allow for each case.

On a brighter note, my certificates arrived in the post today, obviously I'm delighted even if it has taken a bit of extra time and legwork.

One quick question though.

I applied for a .270 with mod for said rifle, however on the certificate it states "small bore" moderator.

Is that correct/going to cause me any problems?

Once again thanks for all the help and guidance on this matter.

Now I'm looking at rifles, I already have my eye one one that is for sale on here that looks like it would suit my needs pretty well, however just wonder if anyone else has a decent. 270 setup that isn't getting used and that they might be willing to part with. Preferably in Scotland

 

[Utectok]

Ring up and get it corrected it should say “full bore moderator” my locals responded by return with corrections

 

[Subsistence]

Ring up and get it corrected it should say “full bore moderator” my locals responded by return with corrections

Thought as much, phone lines where closed when it arrived but I have emailed them so will hopefully get a response in the morning, if not I'll give them a call

 

[timbrayford]

I’m sure plenty will disagree with me but I can actually see where the Police are coming from.

They are asking if you really have ‘good reason’ to obtain a firearm just now or whether you just want one as you’re getting into stalking and it’s all part of the stuff you think you ‘need’ at this stage.

If the estate rifle clause is in place and sufficient and you don’t have ground but have some future stalks booked (which can also be cancelled) it’s a tough one to argue against.

I get that it can feel like chicken and egg however I’m pretty sure the FLO’s have to deal with several renewals every month from people who have been granted FAC under similar circumstances who didn’t really need a FAC and have purchased one box of ammunition which is still half full after 5 years as they’ve done three paid stalks (if that) and are often the same people moaning how expensive it is to do paid stalks and/or how expensive syndicates are etc but have a nice shiny £3k rifle and optics package in the cabinet.

Need doesn't come into it, doesn't get a mention in the firearms act, frequently confused with good reason by the uneducated!

 

[User00056]

One quick question though.

I applied for a .270 with mod for said rifle, however on the certificate it states "small bore" moderator

.270 works best with no moderator

Congratulations, by the way. Welcome to the club

 

[ContinShots]

Nothing formal, application is paused for a few weeks to see if I can jump through their hoops, the suggestion was if I couldn't get land to stalk over I should withdraw the application.

Yes I provided evidence of an upcoming paid stalk later in the year.

Yes I'm a member of BASC, will be contacting them later today or tomorrow

Don't withdraw! That's another weasel tactic, like voluntarily surrendering your guns. It means you have absolutely no recource to appeal anything. If you're not a member of an association with insurance, you've probably missed the boat in terms of getting them to cover an appeal, however, membership may still get you legal advice and support, or with the likes of SACS, help and input from the guy who used to run Scotland's firearms licensing system. Their reason for refusal, if it is as you say, is not competent, but the firearms licensing system is so archaic, the appeal routes are limited and laborious, so if you can get an association to advocate for you before they've made a decision, that may be the best option. I have multiple examples of FEOs and their superiors making it up as they go along or being 100% wrong in their interpretation of law and guidance. Sadly, every time they're not challenged, they are emboldened.