Game dealer nightmare!

[si_b1979]

Monkey Spanker, I stand corrected.

It appears a lot of organisations have some updating to do in their guidance.

As ignorance is not an excuse, would it not be sensible if DMQ could notify all those who hold DSC1 on updates to legislation relevant to the qualification.

To be honest, I don't spend much of my time perusing the FSA documents...

 

[stalker.308]

Monkey Spanker, I stand corrected.

It appears a lot of organisations have some updating to do in their guidance.

As ignorance is not an excuse, would it not be sensible if DMQ could notify all those who hold DSC1 on updates to legislation relevant to the qualification.

To be honest, I don't spend much of my time perusing the FSA documents...

You may not have spent much of your time perusig the FSA documents but the same guidance has been in place since the last Game Guide was published back in 2008 (possibly before that but this was the first time I had seen it updated). So to be 6 years already out of date is fairly bad for not perusing FSA documents............

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Monkey Spanker, I stand corrected.

It appears a lot of organisations have some updating to do in their guidance.

As ignorance is not an excuse, would it not be sensible if DMQ could notify all those who hold DSC1 on updates to legislation relevant to the qualification.

To be honest, I don't spend much of my time perusing the FSA documents...

As just stated, the first version of the Wild Game Guide (Draft) was back in 2008. It was probably a rather grey area prior to that, but since then, nothing has changed. I don't think it should be up to your DSC 1 training provider or even DMQ to tell everyone about any changes really? It is down to individuals to keep abreast of the law and current legislation. In industry it is known as CPD (Continual Personal Development). You are in fact gaining CPD right now by learning from this thread. Every day should be a school day for deer managers, but it does however strengthen the arguement that some sort of training (DSC 1?) is essential to ensure stalkers have at least a base knowledge to begin with. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to explain on here that you MUST be a registered food business to sell to a AGHE.
Regards,
MS

 

[liongeorge]

As just stated, the first version of the Wild Game Guide (Draft) was back in 2008. It was probably a rather grey area prior to that, but since then, nothing has changed. I don't think it should be up to your DSC 1 training provider or even DMQ to tell everyone about any changes really? It is down to individuals to keep abreast of the law and current legislation. In industry it is known as CPD (Continual Personal Development). You are in fact gaining CPD right now by learning from this thread. Every day should be a school day for deer managers, but it does however strengthen the arguement that some sort of training (DSC 1?) is essential to ensure stalkers have at least a base knowledge to begin with. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to explain on here that you MUST be a registered food business to sell to a AGHE.
Regards,
MS

Blimey well it certainly has been a school day for me, I wonder how many small scale/amateur set ups are actually registered as a food business. I thought along with probably the majority on here that trained hunter was good enough to take in fur to the AGHE.
If I were to try and register as a food business to the LA without a premises or larder would they just check my vehicle then?

 

[Devon County Shooter]

I use MC Kelly down here in Devon just outside Credition. Never had any issues, they use a BACS system which drops the money in your bank account 1 to 2 weeks later. Invoices are sent by email to create that paper work chain. I will always promote this dealer and their great service.

Carl.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Taff, you nailed it.

MS, Here are the full details.

Price agreed two days before the cull £3 kg with the owner.
Payment terms of 28 days (standard).

Game collected and weights agreed at 536.5kg, all carcasses clean and head shot, no deductions.

Payment chased and chased again after the 28 days were up.

Payment received after 35 days but the amount was equal to £2.80kg.

I spoke to the lad handling my account and was told that the owner had never agreed that price and was not willing to speak to me on the phone.

As far as I`m concerned he has reneged on a verbal agreement and all trust is lost.

Youve got a cheek moaning about being turned over on a verbal promise..

Ive still got all the emails regarding the unprofessional handling of trophy's from your Zambia hunt.

If anyman ever reneged on a promise it was you.

 

[Overlay]

I would let that one slip under the bridge matey. Next time your than one with choice. Go to the best deal for you, get the price in writing if you're gonna tip a good weight in. as it could come back and give you another nip

Atb

phil

 

[Klenchblaize]

As just stated, the first version of the Wild Game Guide (Draft) was back in 2008. It was probably a rather grey area prior to that, but since then, nothing has changed. I don't think it should be up to your DSC 1 training provider or even DMQ to tell everyone about any changes really? It is down to individuals to keep abreast of the law and current legislation. In industry it is known as CPD (Continual Personal Development). You are in fact gaining CPD right now by learning from this thread. Every day should be a school day for deer managers, but it does however strengthen the arguement that some sort of training (DSC 1?) is essential to ensure stalkers have at least a base knowledge to begin with. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to explain on here that you MUST be a registered food business to sell to a AGHE.
Regards,
MS

‎This is a bit of a bombshell and surely worthy of a thread in it's own right given the number of Trained Hunters who will most certainly not be aware of this and if for no other reason than game dealers are still happily taking TH tagged carcasses with no other checks??

All the correspondence I have from the FSA focused on what was the minimum requirement to permit the supply of skinned and prepared venison to the Country Club restaurant on the very estate said deer are shot and it came down to two options:

1. Register as a "Small Food Business".
2. Agree an arrangement with a 'friendly' Game Dealer whereby they process and supply said carcasses to restaurant for a middle man handling fee.

If as a non registered SFB one cannot even supply to a Game Dealer where does that leave someone culling more deer than they can stuff into their freezer if wishing to be legally compliant??

MS is quite right about CPD ‎and the responsibility for compliance residing with the stalker but I do think both the BDS and BASC could be a little more helpful in 'teasing' this reality into the wider consciousness of the stalking community.

K‎

‎

 

[liongeorge]

‎This is a bit of a bombshell and surely worthy of a thread in it's own right given the number of Trained Hunters who will most certainly not be aware of this and if for no other reason than game dealers are still happily taking TH tagged carcasses with no other checks??

All the correspondence I have from the FSA focused on what was the minimum requirement to permit the supply of skinned and prepared venison to the Country Club restaurant on the very estate said deer are shot and it came down to two options:

1. Register as a "Small Food Business".
2. Agree an arrangement with a 'friendly' Game Dealer whereby they process and supply said carcasses to restaurant for a middle man handling fee.

If as a non registered SFB one cannot even supply to a Game Dealer where does that leave someone culling more deer than they can stuff into their freezer if wishing to be legally compliant??

MS is quite right about CPD ‎and the responsibility for compliance residing with the stalker but I do think both the BDS and BASC could be a little more helpful in 'teasing' this reality into the wider consciousness of the stalking community.

K‎

‎

Lets please not do any 'teasing', the requirement to become a small food business to drive the carcass off the field to a game dealer is a classic case of over regulation and complete b####ks as far as I can tell.

Please let sleeping dogs lie , the system as it stands works perfectly well. The meat is traceable and there are to my knowledge not hundreds of people coming down with disease and food poisoning.

G

 

[howa243]

Lets please not do any 'teasing', the requirement to become a small food business to drive the carcass off the field to a game dealer is a classic case of over regulation and complete b####ks as far as I can tell.

Please let sleeping dogs lie , the system as it stands works perfectly well. The meat is traceable and there are to my knowledge not hundreds of people coming down with disease and food poisoning.

G

Got to disagree with this. It might be bollox, but if the excrement hits the fan, being uninsured (which I assume would be the case in such a breach) would not be a good place to be.

 

[liongeorge]

What has insurance got to do with it. I'm not sure that my insurance has anything to do with my supplying the food chain. What is the claim against you going to be? Won't the AGHE have some responsibility? Has any stalker had a claim against them in this respect.....ever? I'd be very interested to know.

 

[howa243]

What has insurance got to do with it. I'm not sure that my insurance has anything to do with my supplying the food chain. What is the claim against you going to be? Won't the AGHE have some responsibility? Has any stalker had a claim against them in this respect.....ever? I'd be very interested to know.

Totally accept that the chances of a claim being made against you may be small, but if one was and if you needed help, an insurance company could/would use the fact that you may be supplying without the correct documentation as an excuse to say bye bye. Bearing in mind there is no charge made and they cannot refuse the application it seems to be sensible step to make.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Lets please not do any 'teasing', the requirement to become a small food business to drive the carcass off the field to a game dealer is a classic case of over regulation and complete b####ks as far as I can tell.

Please let sleeping dogs lie , the system as it stands works perfectly well. The meat is traceable and there are to my knowledge not hundreds of people coming down with disease and food poisoning.

G

it may be as indeed is thought to be the law pertaining to purchase of expanding ammunition but we comply with such as to do otherwise would be to break the law with attendant consequence. Why then are you suggesting a selective approach to this aspect of law and that two of the most respected Bodies representing our interest should by inference be complicit with?

I think its a total pain and wholly unnecessary but I do not accept that someone undertaking DSCL1 should be permitted to come away from a 3-day course having attained a 100% pass figure yet be unclear in this matter.

K

 

[sauer]

I heard of a story from guy on here , can't remember who , he had same set up as me ... Garage in residential housing estate with chest freezer , double door coke fridge & butchers table & gear.
Like me , processed all his deer for himself & friends & family .
Neighbours anti hunting ..,. Grassed him up to council for selling game .... Had a visit .... Explained himself , council visitor saw perfect sense & sided with him, but suggested he register with council as a food business to cover his ass. A note on his file to say personal use & sell odd carcass to game dealer.

That's what I did , spoke to local council / authority, registered as food business but a more on the file , saying personal useage with odd beast to game dealer & a note o my dsc 1 & 2

Never had any hassle from them

Paul

 

[devon deer stalker]

I use MC Kelly down here in Devon just outside Credition. Never had any issues, they use a BACS system which drops the money in your bank account 1 to 2 weeks later. Invoices are sent by email to create that paper work chain. I will always promote this dealer and their great service.

Carl.

Agreed, from what i understand they don't pay top rates but acceptable, and they pay quickly as stated, just jinxed myself now as i dropped off 2 yesterday!
Cheers
Richard

 

[howa243]

Mid Shires food. Never used them myself but have heard good things. Based in Shropshire. £3.20 for Red and Fallow delivered.

 

[Alantoo]

Regarding the small food business registration I understood from my Dsc1 three years ago that the trained hunter qualification was adequate to sell to a game dealer and that registration as a food business was not necessary for a leisure stalker provided that the quantities were low/infrequent.

This is quoted from Stroud District Council food licensing web page and appears to support what I understood...

Regulation summary

If you run a food business for five or more days in any five consecutive weeks, you must tell (or arrange for someone else to tell) us about any premises you use for storing, selling, distributing or preparing food. Food premises includes:


Alan

 

[sharkey]

If you cull a stag or buck in velvet how much per kilo do you get for the velvet? How much per kilo for the penis & glands? These should be worth 100 times more than the venison.

Sharkey

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Regarding the small food business registration I understood from my Dsc1 three years ago that the trained hunter qualification was adequate to sell to a game dealer and that registration as a food business was not necessary for a leisure stalker provided that the quantities were low/infrequent.

This is quoted from Stroud District Council food licensing web page and appears to support what I understood...

Regulation summary

If you run a food business for five or more days in any five consecutive weeks, you must tell (or arrange for someone else to tell) us about any premises you use for storing, selling, distributing or preparing food. Food premises includes:


Alan

No! Read the Wild Game regs which are very specific!
The original version stated that 'small quantities' could be up to 300 carcasses per year!!!
Most local councils are quite clueless in this area. There is no mention of wild game on the list of what food premises include (I just Googled it!) so I would suggest that their page does not support it at all?
There's a lot of denial in this subject which I find quite strange as it is made very clear in Black and White and has certainly been taught on any DSC 1 course I have been on.
MS

 

[PointBlank]

Registering as a food business is dead easy, I was surprised that the EHO who visited said I was the only stalker he knew of under my council (Babergh) who had registered.