Got arrested this morning

[finnbear270]

It's a condition of a night license anyway. Saves a pile of grief

Not many Pigeon shooters doing night shoots.

 

[gixer1]

This is kind of how I feel about it. If we take this, then what next? How much further into the corner do we get pushed. Its like we are doing something socially unacceptable. I get the idea and I want to work with the police but if shooters are always taking a step back then where do we end up left?

I can tell you what’s next - after the implementations of a “call in system” it will be geo-tagging, whereby if you want to carry a firearm you will need to have some sort of GPS tracking to show where you are - it’s all part of the “death by one thousand cuts” system that seems to be being implemented and many shooters are happily waltzing along the path.

I remember looking at the US NRA spokespersons and thinking they were extreme and off-putting, I now understand exactly why they do not give one inch.

So far in my short time with firearms we have -

Lost the right to use pistols.

Lost the right to use large chamberings semi-autos.

Lost the right to use snares.

Had medical forms made compulsory (even though doctors have no obligation to complete them)

Having powders restricted through reach.

On the way to having ammunition materials restricted.

On the way to having licence costs elevated by 400%.

Can anyone think of any ground we have gained? The only small thing would be the ability to use less than 100gr bullets on red deer and use electronic scopes to shoot deer A why?…well, because for now it suits the governments environmental tree planting narrative.

When the deer numbers are down (and that will happen eventually in many areas) we will have those things taken again….

We need to vote in politicians who are not blind or liking to line their own pockets.

 

[M@tt]

I farm on the edge of a major airport.
I was out after foxes and the helicopter that often patrolled the perimeter flew overhead.
I was hidden from sight in a woodland ride and it passed, but I could hear it hovering about half a mile away on the other side of the wood. As I walked back along the ride towards the road I could see the top of one of the police Discoveries parked up. I unloaded and walked up out of sight, placed the rifle down before walking out to greet them.
They asked what I was doing and where the weapon was. I told them, and they seemed happy, didn't even get out of the vehicle.

I was told by the local police not to tell the airport I was shooting as they get upset. The Airport police didn't inform the local police of their concern before dispatching a vehicle to have a look after the helicopter spotted me (thermal possibly, I was wearing camo and in a treeline, or I need to up my fieldcraft).

But it was a positive encounter with police just doing their job. If I'd been arrested or otherwise detained I might have a different view of it, but around here they have always been very reasonable.

 

[finnbear270]

I can tell you what’s next - after the implementations of a “call in system” it will be geo-tagging, whereby if you want to carry a firearm you will need to have some sort of GPS tracking to show where you are - it’s all part of the “death by one thousand cuts” system that seems to be being implemented and many shooters are happily waltzing along the path.

I remember looking at the US NRA spokespersons and thinking they were extreme and off-putting, I now understand exactly why they do not give one inch.

So far in my short time with firearms we have -

Lost the right to use pistols.

Lost the right to use large chamberings semi-autos.

Lost the right to use snares.

Had medical forms made compulsory (even though doctors have no obligation to complete them)

Having powders restricted through reach.

On the way to having ammunition materials restricted.

On the way to having licence costs elevated by 400%.

Can anyone think of any ground we have gained? The only small thing would be the ability to use less than 100gr bullets on red deer and use electronic scopes to shoot deer A why?…well, because for now it suits the governments environmental tree planting narrative.

When the deer numbers are down (and that will happen eventually in many areas) we will have those things taken again….

We need to vote in politicians who are not blind or liking to line their own pockets.

That would mean first bottling some Unicorn tears then.

 

[gixer1]

It's a condition of a night license anyway. Saves a pile of grief

Not all people that shoot at night need a night shooting licence.

If I walk out my back door at night and see a fox I do not want to have to wait until I’ve called PC plod to be able to carry out a lawful activity.

It’s erosion of liberties with no benefit to society, the percentages of risk to public are in the 10ths of a single percent with firearms, yet our government seem to be focusing on it….

 

[M@tt]

Can anyone think of any ground we have gained?

Possible sound mods and flash hiders off-ticket.

A small victory possibly.

But, generally, I agree with you, little by little we're losing what freedoms we have.

 

[finnbear270]

I farm on the edge of a major airport.
I was out after foxes and the helicopter that often patrolled the perimeter flew overhead.
I was hidden from sight in a woodland ride and it passed, but I could hear it hovering about half a mile away on the other side of the wood. As I walked back along the ride towards the road I could see the top of one of the police Discoveries parked up. I unloaded and walked up out of sight, placed the rifle down before walking out to greet them.
They asked what I was doing and where the weapon was. I told them, and they seemed happy, didn't even get out of the vehicle.

I was told by the local police not to tell the airport I was shooting as they get upset. The Airport police didn't inform the local police of their concern before dispatching a vehicle to have a look after the helicopter spotted me (thermal possibly, I was wearing camo and in a treeline, or I need to up my fieldcraft).

But it was a positive encounter with police just doing their job. If I'd been arrested or otherwise detained I might have a different view of it, but around here they have always been very reasonable.

You were very unlikely hidden from the Helo, they are all fitted up with the best thermal camera systems, when you unloaded you were probably examined in some detail, hence the plod asking where the rifle was.

 

[M@tt]

You were very unlikely hidden from the Helo, they are all fitted up with the best thermal camera systems, when you unloaded you were probably examined in some detail, hence the plod asking where the rifle was.

Yeah, that's what I guessed. I would think they could also see what activity I was doing, and that was why they were a bit more relaxed when I met the patrol at the road.

 

[gixer1]

Possible sound mods and flash hiders off-ticket.

A small victory possibly.

But, generally, I agree with you, little by little we're losing what freedoms we have.

We haven’t got that yet….i mean something we have had pushed through.

 

[finnbear270]

Yeah, that's what I guessed. I would think they could also see what activity I was doing, and that was why they were a bit more relaxed when I met the patrol at the road.

Some sensible ones about.

 

[finnbear270]

We haven’t got that yet….i mean something we have had pushed through.

Hoops?

 

[gixer1]

Yeah, that's what I guessed. I would think they could also see what activity I was doing, and that was why they were a bit more relaxed when I met the patrol at the road.

Nice that we as tax payers get to pay for someone to play around in a helicopter, something a drone can do for 1/10th of the cost and with less risk and noise.

 

[M@tt]

Nice that we as tax payers get to pay for someone to play around in a helicopter, something a drone can do for 1/10th of the cost and with less risk and noise.

This was about 15 years ago. They may well fly drones now I'll have to ask. But I guess the risk of someone either flying an unauthorised drone unnoticed or the authorised one being reported is most likely high.
They do have drone cartridges for the shotguns, but these aren't much good against drones travelling fast or higher than about 40yds.

There are still fly helicopters around the place but as it's an airport I rarely look up to see if it's a patrol, a medical or business one coming in.

 

[cjm1066]

Please read PACE Code G 2012 (accessible)

Get professional advice and implement it.

 

[NoIDeer]

Bit over the top handcuffing someone that wasn't doing anything wrong. To get the handcuffs on the situation has already been made safe.

 

[finbar]

Used to live in the northumbria force area had a txt msg no
Txt them reg ov vehicle where we are pigeon shooting txt wud come back crime no only in built up area’s
Now live in Durham 12 mile from old address & Durham have nothing like this they say ring 101 lost the will to live after hanging on for over an hour
Only ring if in a built up area’s out in the sticks never bother & touch wood have had no problems been pulled over friendly chat with police then of you go

 

[finnbear270]

Being arrested does not have to include being handcuffed, the mere verbal advice that you are being / have been arrested, is enough to constitute arrest, the handcuffs are to prevent the possible fleeing of a suspect, & handcuffing is normally made with an explanation for why, (To prevent an officer from being struck while carrying out a search on the person).
"The constable should outline the facts, information and other circumstances which provide the grounds for believing that their arrest is necessary and which the officer considers satisfy one or more of the statutory criteria"

 

[Tazz]

But surely the police should have asked whoever reported the 'incident' what was suspicious about the men and how were they dressed and doing what exactly, also if they had a vehicle number the police can get the details of the owners and find out if they are legitimate Firearms owners. Also before you arrest somebody they are obliged to tell you why they are arresting you and whether you understand giving you the chance to reply. You then have the chance to tell them what you are doing there and if legitimate then no further action should be taken.
Another way of finding out if the reported persons were legitimate would be to contact the land owner on whose land they were and ask if anybody has permission to shoot there.
The whole scenario sounds like a rooky cop on a training exercise.

You do have to wonder are these calls made by ‘ the general public” deliberately malicious and therefore looking for an over the top police reaction

 

[finnbear270]

You do have to wonder are these calls made by ‘ the general public” deliberately malicious and therefore looking for an over the top police reaction

I have been the unfortunate recipient of two or three such calls, resulting in some spectacular happenings.

 

[DavyG]

This morning my friend and I had loaded weapons pointed at us, were told to walk with our hands in the air, were handcuffed, were told "you are both under arrest under suspicion of possession of a firearm", our clothes were searched searched and my car was briefly examined visually inside before "Thank you for your cooperation, sorry for the trouble but you will understand we have to investigate reports" This is not on and I would like advice as to how to stop this happening to others.

I would like to say from the start that the officers involved were very polite and I thought them all nice guys but the protocol that allowed this to happen is not fair or proportionate and I think if it is allowed to be considered as OK, then we are on a slippery slope to being guilty until proven innocent, which is a bad position to be in with a gun in your hand.

Of course we had permission, of course we didn't point guns at or near anyone. If fact we didn't point a gun at all -no deer was even seen on the permission where I have shot for years. The policeman in charge told me that he didn't know till they arrived at the scene and he took my registration that I had a FAC. To that point if you want to bring 6 or 7 cars full of armed officers and a dog team to a report of "2 males with a long barrelled weapon seen going into (private) wood (in the countryside with no footpath, exiting car parked within woodland edge from woodland facing side and walking in)" then OK if you can justify the resource allocation but from that point on, when nothing suspicious had been done and I was clearly licensed this was surely heavy handed? Surely a quiet word with an unarmed officer when we emerged from the wood to check we had permission would have been enough? Even then whose business is it to check up on law abiding citizens hunting with a weapon held for only hunting unless there has been poaching in the area or suspicion of poaching? Why should hunting be itself a suspicious activity? Is taking cash out of a bank suspicious in itself? Is driving a car away suspicious in itself?

Did I need to be arrested by armed men? did I need to be handcuffed or searched? The officer in charge said "Sorry we can't be taking chances" but if that sort of thinking is allowed to take root we will all be pushed further and further into corners afraid to assert our rights do do what we have worked hard to be given lawful permission to do. What is suspicious about someone who holds a rifle only for deer stalking to be seen deer stalking? I said to the officer "There are thousands of people out on this Christmas holiday Saturday legally shooting. Would it be right to arrest anyone seen in a field carrying a gun on a sling on their shoulder?" He just said they couldn't take chances and I should phone the police to tell them I am going hunting in advance. This is the state going too far in my opinion.

I expect a number of replies to say "You must have done something suspicious" and "We must all just accept this sort of control and interference in the interests of public safety" but I feel this is going too far. Had it been a report of drug use or burglary the police would likely never have even turned up but more people die from drugs and criminal lifestyles than from guns in this country every year, a lot more. There is a witch hunt out for guns and country sports. If we accept this as OK because we are all too scared to risk going on the naughty list next time we want to renew, where does this end?

In the interests of my fellow sportsmen, I would ideally like someone in charge to simply accept that this was a heavy handed approach and to revise the protocol. I don't know if I really want to go through the misery of pushing for this but right now I feel I should. Can anyone advise me how I would best go about this please?

Thanks

The police can only respond to the initial report. Their actions will therefore depend on its content.
At which point were you “arrested”…?
DG