How do you train a puppy?

[sikamalc]

MarkH I cannot understand your remark about a dog that pulls deer down and having it mixing with children.

I have 7 grandchildren, the youngest is 1 year old, Todd is nothing but completly at home with all of my grandchildren, just as much in fact more than the two German Shepherds I have had. All dogs need to know who is boss, and I will stick my neck right out here and say that the Bavarian Breed is one of the most suited for a family if you want a deer dog, gentle, loyal, inteligent and very family orientated. In fact he goes mad to play with the kids when they come round, and has never barked, bared his teeth, growled at anytime.

I think its how you train them that also counts, but of course one must have the raw materials first to make a good job. Todd's father is or was the Polish Field Trial Champion, and I am fully aware that working dogs are held in high regard, more so than by the KC of the UK. My friend who put me onto the litter, often goes to Bavaria to the trials and has also helped me with Todd's tuition.

My asking about Hanovarians being registered was mearly out of interest, as I know Bavarians have only just been recognised. I do not intend to show Todd, I bought him for two purposes. One for working on deer, and after two years managed through a good friend who keeps 2 Bavarians to find a litter of pups in Shropshire. And secondly as a companion whilst out stalking.

As Thar has mentioned why have working dogs and not use them, I have no issue with your keeping them as pets, that is up to you, and good luck I say. But these breeds were bred for working, its what makes them tick.

 

[Thar]

Th Germans in particular are way ahead of the KC with their breed standards which include working tests not just breed confirmation...

In the UK, the show crowd under the guise of the KC have been responsible for ruining many breeds as they breed for exaggerated looks while paying no attention to working ability..

Hi Pete

While in general agreement with the way that the Germans breed there dogs and the way the breed masters operate, it is vastly better than what the KC do over here. It is important to remember that the German hunting situation, and what is important to them is not necessarily the most relevant to the UK style of hunting.

For example a dog that kills cats is a positive for the Germans, but it might not stand you in good stead over here if your dog killed the wife’s or neighbours Tabby. Following a 48hr blood trail is impressive, but what use? The deer will be dead and venison spoilt or if still alive will probably recover from its minor wound.

Best rgds

Tahr

 

[Pete E]

Deleted by User

 

[MarkH]

Malc and Thar


Just to clarify some of us are not professional deer stalkers and dont make a living from it, also I dont take clients out who may need the services of a tracking dog. Some of us have a life outside the narrow dogmatic world of hunting and deer.

Therefore 99.9% of the time my dogs arent working, they are just pets that live in the kitchen. I could have trained them to hold a deer but I chose not to because the situation does not require it, I want my dogs soft mouthed. Its not so much the daft things my kids do with the dogs but what other kids can get up to when I'm not there that lead me to this conclusion. Even one nipped finger could spell legal proceeding with the wrong parent.

On the occasions I have had to track a possibly wounded deer or retrieve a dead deer from the wood at night I have had 100% success. That would be about 10 occasions and three in one day on a shoot with a couple of forum members.

I rest my case

Mark

 

[sikamalc]

I have very much a life outside stalking, curating an international collection in a museum and spending quality time with my grandchildren to name but a few

I bought and trained my dog not because of clients, but because I wanted a deer dog, and after loosing a deer some 4 years ago. It was this that made me realise that I should have a dog, and that the challenge of finding the right breed and training it appealed to me, and also for companionship.

These breeds need to be worked, and as I have said before this is what makes them tick. Mine is almost at the point now where if you watch him he will tell you by his movements that there are deer in front without even seeing them He had already prooved his capabilities when he was less than two years old and guiding Mr B on Sika last autumn. And he is very much part of my family

 

[Duncs]

Grow up, stop arguing and say thanks to Jagare for a fantstic, informative post..bye!

 

[sikamalc]

Thank you Duncs for your views Growing up is nothing to do with this thread and answering the question about dogs mixing with children is a valid one put by MarkH but in this case I have to disagree.

But thanks for your thoughts

 

[Beowulf]

Thanks Jagare for a very good post!

 

[Duncs]

I agree with the bit about dogs socialising with children, but I don't care who has the better life outside the stalking world. That was the bit I thought a little inappropriate!!

 

[Stringer]

Beowulf asked for tips on training a deer for tracking. So here is training a dog Swedish style.

In the picture there are the things i use when training. first the blood. I buy mine from the supermarket (cow blood) and i water it down 50% with water. I put it in a washing up liquid bottle and keep it in the freezer.

The hoof on a piece of string for laying the scent of deer.

Then there is the harness. I like the harness better than a collar as i think it does not restrict the dogs breathing like a collar does.

The tracking line. I have a fancy one in leather but i always use the plastic one as it slides over obstacles and does not get so snagged up on branches and bushes. The tracking lead is so usefull as you have control over the dog. If you have ever tracked a gut shot deer or one with a leg wound with a free running dog you will know how the deer will keep getting up and running on. With the dog on the long lead it is possible to get a shot at the deer before it runs of again.

The bits of coloured tape on plastic cloths pegs. These are used to mark the start of the trail and which way the trail go's. I use two tapes of different colours when i make a rightangled turn with no blood. If you are like me a forgetfull old git its easy when you come to do the trail, 8 hours later to remember where you started and which way you went.
Then we have the tracking device as advertised by a firm that sells tracking gear in the UK. Great bit of kit if you are hunting deer with a dog like i do. But a waste of money for tracking.

Teaching your dog basic obedience you can learn from any gun dog training book. Basic obedience should be taught the same as if you were training any other gun dog.

Deer carcases and deer skin have no part in the training of a tracking dog till the very later part of training. So eat the deer and make your something nice in buck skin with the skin.

A good thing is let the dog have a deer hoof as a play thing for a short period every day. Not letting him eat it.

To start training the pup to track take the blood and sprinkle plenty of blood at the start of the trail. Dragging the hove with the string behind you lay a 50 yard strait trail dripping blood as you go. When you get to the end of the trail tie the hoof to a bush or something so that fox and the like can't run of with the hoof. I hold my finger over the nozzle of the washing up liquid bottle so i can easily regulate how much blood you let drip out. Get the puppy and sit him down a bit away from the trail. put on the harness and lead. Take the puppy forward to the start where you have sprinkled the blood and say go seek or what ever command you choose. Give plenty of encouragement and the pup should follow the trail.
let the puppy play with the hoof when it finds it. after a short while say dead to the pup and take the hoof away. I put the hoof back in the freezer and they can be used many times.
After the a while you can make the trail longer and more complicated but don't rush the pup. It takes months to get them up to a good standard.
You can put rightangle turns into the trail and just drag the hoof and use no blood for 10-15 mtrs. Also the period between you laying the trail and tracking can get longer and longer. Within 4 months of training your pup should be doing 500mtr tracks 8 hours old.
In Viltspår (tracking) trials they use 1/3 of a Ltr blood over 600 mtrs. Ive got my little taxen bitch up to the 600mtrs and i use just a fraction of that amount of blood. It pays to use less and less blood as the pup gets better at tracking. That way they are more focust on the scent of the hoof.

Hopefully you will end up with a real tracking dog and not a dog that will find deer that you could have found your self.

Good post, What age would you start the pup on tracking training? I have read conflicting advice.

Cheers,

Stephen

 

[Jagare]

Blimey, this thread has risen from the grave. You can start a pup at 4-6 months . Take it slow and be amazed what you and the pup can do.

 

[Jonher]

Great post Jagare,

Just seen this post and as i'm planning on getting a deer dog over here in Norway, your post was full of useful tips

I'm guessing you've upgraded your tracking device to a Garmin Astro these days though

Hilsen

 

[Jagare]

Hej jonher, Yep i have got the Astro for the kopov but he only uses it when hunting. We were out last Tuesday hunting and the Astro showed the kopov had covered over 21km over the days hunting.
The other tracker in the picture i use when hunting the Taxen on roe.