Hull Cartridges
- Thread starter Heym SR20
- Start date
Nice video, Hull marketing manager must be very pleased 
but Hull cartridges are now far from competitive on price and you notice they did not have the confidence to say how long the hydro wads take to degrade as likely to be years not months like fibre wads, only the water soluble or cardboard tube wads are similar to fibre in that respect.
Then supper fast, makes no significant difference by the time the shot has gone 20yards if it leaves the barrel at 1400 or 1200 ft/second just marketing hype.
but Hull cartridges are now far from competitive on price and you notice they did not have the confidence to say how long the hydro wads take to degrade as likely to be years not months like fibre wads, only the water soluble or cardboard tube wads are similar to fibre in that respect.Then supper fast, makes no significant difference by the time the shot has gone 20yards if it leaves the barrel at 1400 or 1200 ft/second just marketing hype.
Well he’s not going to say it’s all doom and gloom, steel shoot is not as good as lead and throwaway your 28ga and .410 is he now.Nice to see the optimism for the future
Stalker-of-the-deer
Well-Known Member
Thing is with the game market you don't need to be that competitive when you have brand awareness like hull do.
I live beside warter estate and about 15 miles from the hull factory and the people shooting their honestly couldn't care that a slab of cartridges is 150 quid when they are spending upwards of 20k a year
To shoot there.
And that's where the problem lies. Catering for people who do large comerical shoots makes sense as a business as that's where the money lies.
Not the small farm yard shoot or pigeon shooter, as for clay cartridges they are lucky to clear £5 per 1000 cartridges sold.
Along with that everything has gone up in price wages, components, energy. Has to be passed onto the consumer for the business to stay profitable.
I think we're all just going to have to bite the bullet and accept that £150 per 1000 cartridges is long gone unfortunately.
I live beside warter estate and about 15 miles from the hull factory and the people shooting their honestly couldn't care that a slab of cartridges is 150 quid when they are spending upwards of 20k a year
To shoot there.
And that's where the problem lies. Catering for people who do large comerical shoots makes sense as a business as that's where the money lies.
Not the small farm yard shoot or pigeon shooter, as for clay cartridges they are lucky to clear £5 per 1000 cartridges sold.
Along with that everything has gone up in price wages, components, energy. Has to be passed onto the consumer for the business to stay profitable.
I think we're all just going to have to bite the bullet and accept that £150 per 1000 cartridges is long gone unfortunately.
Calcium carbide used to be sold by Fulton at Bisley. Hull at one time had the UK agency for Remington and Fiocchi metallic cartridges.
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I bought a slab of Eley Grand Prix Steel - 250 cartridges @£140 and been using them in my 100 year old Alex Martin and AyA. To be honest no difference to what I used to use. Phaesants, snipe, ducks and grouse have all dropped to the shot, and hit rate pretty much the same on the little walked up shoots that I do.
Pleased to hear that 16 bore and 28 bore options are now in the pipeline. Not surprising that focus has been on 12 as this accounts for the vast majority of guns out there.
As for cost. The Eley Grand Prix Steel with Pro Eco wad are £143 per 250, whereas the standard Eley Grand Prix Fibre wad are £119 per 250. They are more expensive as they are specialist cartridge designed for old 2 1/2” chambered guns.
Pleased to hear that 16 bore and 28 bore options are now in the pipeline. Not surprising that focus has been on 12 as this accounts for the vast majority of guns out there.
As for cost. The Eley Grand Prix Steel with Pro Eco wad are £143 per 250, whereas the standard Eley Grand Prix Fibre wad are £119 per 250. They are more expensive as they are specialist cartridge designed for old 2 1/2” chambered guns.
Stalker-of-the-deer
Well-Known Member
I've tried all sorts and I just stick to Hull or RC now, seem to be the best performance and quality also I can actually get them!
Used to be a big gamebore fan but went off their stuff as it started to get too punchy and very expensive. (Another local company)
Eley are all over the place on QC had a slab of 28 bore VIP and they were brilliant. Got another one and they were naff. Tried some of their steel this year and that's been absolutely crap aswell.
Used to be a big gamebore fan but went off their stuff as it started to get too punchy and very expensive. (Another local company)
Eley are all over the place on QC had a slab of 28 bore VIP and they were brilliant. Got another one and they were naff. Tried some of their steel this year and that's been absolutely crap aswell.
Don’t hold your breath for the 28 bore with hydro wads and steel shoot, will be very challenging to do given the wad wall thickness required to protect the barrel and the little volume then in the shot cup for the larger diameter steel shot required to maintain down range pellet energy for humane kill. Pattern will not be good.
Hull may not have tried it yet because they know the conclusion and hence are unwilling to say not viable with current biodegradable material available and steel shot, 28 bore will be bismuth I bet for sometime.
However the use of non biodegradable plastic is yet to be an issue, other than with the land owners and swapping one form of pollution for another.
zimtrout
Well-Known Member
I have used the high pheasant this season in 12g. Much smoother and have not noticed much difference in killing power. 32g 6s Average pheasant partridge and mallard on a syndicate in Cornwall.
I used some gamebore black gold last weekend. Much punchier. 30g 5s.I think I will stick with hull..
I have tried both companies steel options and preferred hull too.
All of the cart companies will improve their (bio) options for steel shot they don't have much choice if the want a share of the game market.
I used some gamebore black gold last weekend. Much punchier. 30g 5s.I think I will stick with hull..
I have tried both companies steel options and preferred hull too.
All of the cart companies will improve their (bio) options for steel shot they don't have much choice if the want a share of the game market.
I like two brands. Hull and Lyalvale. And used to have back in the day (when they did Fiocchi metallics for pistols) a trade account with the Bontofts. The thing with BOTH was that when you 'phoned you spoke to someone that actually was "hands on" and in charge. Someone that actually knew what went into the cartridge and, yes, could discuss loadings and possible bespoke loads or what they had that was similar that may not have been generally known about. My favourite being 28 grams or, better, 29 grams of English #6 1/2 like the old Winchester GB. I don't know if that ability to speak with someone who is close top the production line and has input into what is made will change with Lyalvale now they are part of the Fiocchi stable.
Hello. Are these the steel High Pheasant and, if so, please, what choke do you have in each barrel? I am guessing your gun is 2 3/4" chamber? SBS or OU?
in the fast changing competitive market of cartridge sales.Stalker-of-the-deer
Well-Known Member
I mean a shotgun cartridge is a shotgun cartridge.
Only thing you can change is the wadding and powder really. So the fact they all say theirs is the best is because you can't exactly have anything better than the other manufacturers.
Only thing you can change is the wadding and powder really. So the fact they all say theirs is the best is because you can't exactly have anything better than the other manufacturers.
Cumbrian 1
Well-Known Member
I shoot at warter and it’s the only shoot that I shoot on which insists on non toxic, I shoot a pair of 16s which are both choked 7/8 in each barrel, when Frank said he was going to insist on non toxic this season I bit the bullet and bought a couple thousand of the Hull bismuth loads.
In the big picture the cost isn’t excessive and I was very pleased with the performance of bismuth.
A lot of guns at warter are using high performance steel but I don’t think it has the same knock down as lead, I think one if the things often overlooked is that lead deforms when it hits flesh.
Stalker-of-the-deer
Well-Known Member
I think its all in perspective isn't it, at the end of the day the cartridges are the cheapest part of the day. If it's £40 to £50 a bird 1.50 a shot for bismuth isn't a deal breaker.
From memory warter have their own game outlet and supply to waitroes amongst others so the non toxic rule is a must really if they want a marketable product.
Steel does work, I've been playing this year and along as you get the velocity and pellet size up its OK. Tend to get bird dead in the air but not "knocked" out the sky like lead does.
From memory warter have their own game outlet and supply to waitroes amongst others so the non toxic rule is a must really if they want a marketable product.
Steel does work, I've been playing this year and along as you get the velocity and pellet size up its OK. Tend to get bird dead in the air but not "knocked" out the sky like lead does.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Trouble with lead is that as it deforms in a phaesant lead particles end up in the meat. These particles are too small to be visible. When it is eaten by yourself, by your family, by somebody who buts it or is served it in a restaurant or it is eaten by an animal, some of that ingested lead will end up be dissolved and end up in the blood stream. From there it will end up in the bones and bone marrow.
Over time it will build up and then can cause all sorts of issues.
A body cannot get rid of lead once it is adsorbed. You can only remove it with drugs.
Have a look at the recently published studies on lead in game meat by researchers at Cambridge along with many others.
If we want to continue shooting game birds and if we want game birds to go into the human food, most consumers will not want a product that may contain a known harmful product - ie lead. More to the point, most buyers for supermarkets will not want to take the risk, especially now that there is body of published science showing how lead from game is bioavailable. Given that are also many viable alternatives to lead ammunition why would a shoot, game dealer, supermarket, restaurant or kitchen take the risk in serving lead shot game to consumers.
10 years the risks were not widely understood, nor perceived, nor were there viable alternatives. There now are.
Some of what was said on the video is just marketing bull, but some should ring alarm bells, hydowad by name but not water soluble and takes a long time (undefined) to degrade. Then matching chamber length to cartridge length to avoid “friction”, read gun damage, so if you have a 3inch chamber do not use 2.3/4inch cartridges, that will push up cartridge prices even more, bet that’s a nice way of ignoring any potential claim for damages if you do not do so.
Game shooters may not be concerned at the rapidly increasing cost of cartridges but what about the rest who shoot clays or pigeons?
In my experience lead shot deforms very little if at all in a pigeon or pheasant, insufficient energy to do so I guess.
Stalker-of-the-deer
Well-Known Member
For clay shooting I think they will revert to steel with plastic wads, at the end of the day if its a propper clay ground and its in a contained area with the wads can be picked up with machinery (like alot of ground already do). Some clay grounds abroad have a large sheet that catches the lead that can then be re cycled and avoid ground contamination.
With time the bio wads will come down in price (economy of scale) as I think most European manufacturers will swap out to biodegradable plastics.
As for pigeon shooting I'm sure there will be a solution soon with bio wads and steel once the market for them picks up.
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