Insurance Passed the Recrecational

[TheDeerWalker]

Hello,

I'm extremely lucky have a small 250 acre permission on a dairy farm, came around by offering to deal with the birds in his barns and then bring the rabbits under control in exchange for Deer permissions on the land. The farm borders a golf course and long story short the golf course owner has asked if i'd help with the rabbits and foxes, given they aren't offering Deer permission instead they offered payment.

I have got insurance through SACS this year, which clearly states it's for recreational purposes only, I am justified in saying my set up currently fits that - I do birds and bunnies in exchange for full permission over the land. However, the second I accept payment then it certainly isn't recreational and therefore would null and void the insurance. I'm not a big risk taker and given the golf course is a commercial entity I wouldn't want to risk doing anything without insurance, but honestly have no idea what one needs for this. I'd be a Sole Trader, not a LTD and the amount earned would be so minimal it wouldn't require tax returns so ideally wouldn't want to incur much cost and effort to take this on. So my main question is, what insurance are people using for paid work? Does anything come with this, i.e. extra security checks, police notifications, so on? How much would I be looking at for the insurance?

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and definitely know how lucky I am to have this opportunity but I work 9-5 in an office and before taking something on I would grow to distain I wanted to have all the facts.

Cheers,
TDW

 

[Liveonce]

Why not just offer to shoot the golf course for free as a recreational shooter? Plenty would jump at the opportunity some of the best shooting i have had has been over a golf course.

 

[Cyres]

Better still barter. I expect golf club has a bar and restaurant so swap for meal out for you and partner. Many offer Xmas party or meals so lots of choice. Also if you can sell the rabbits then really no need to be paid. VSS on here says he uses barter system so pm him.
D

 

[Pedro]

Before doing anything I think it's worth talking with SACS. Payment might well be seen to be many things as well as money, such as golf membership, some meals at the club or whatever. Indeed culling rabbits for stalking rights could be classed as payment. I think most insurers have a definition of "recreational purposes" which might include some or all of these. Indeed if the payment from the golf club is designed as merely covering your costs, that could be included.

So before accepting terms from the golf club, I'd speak to SACS, see if there's a solution.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Barter
Shoot for meals and a round of golf.
Getting them to pay for ammo allows you to be a recreational shooter also.
Plenty money in rabbits just now as well

 

[VSS]

Barter is still payment.
Knowing how slippery insurance companies can be, that's almost certainly how they'd view it, in order to avoid coughing up in the event of a claim.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Its a grey area with these shooting orgs/insurance companies, quite often they mention, 'you can earn up to £5k as a recreational shooter', really? when does it cross over to becoming non recreational, i.e a business?
Bartering as already said is payment, if it were me I would just sell the bunnies, oh wait, but then I get paid, what now? See where I'm coming from?
It's simple, contact Clivertons or similar, register as self employed with HMRC, claim for everything, and go and shoot some bunnies....and deer.

 

[Overlay]

If its the only bit of shooting that will come as work, my thoughts would be to undertake it on a no charge basis purely as recreational but get the permission in writing from the golf course for just that that, if you have a incident on the golf course there are are paying customers involved and to be honest I’m surprised they haven’t asked for commercial insurance and RA-MS to be honest because of the third party involvement

 

[Trickyd66]

I have been wondering the same, so just did a quick online quote with 2 providers for pest and vermin control... one was about £500 a year, the other £260. Both with £2mil public liability only. More than I pay for my electrical business insurance.

 

[Overlay]

I have been wondering the same, so just did a quick online quote with 2 providers for pest and vermin control... one was about £500 a year, the other £260. Both with £2mil public liability only. More than I pay for my electrical business insurance.

The £260 PA check it out for firearms etc, thats not a bad deal, some pest control insurers put gassing and high level fogging and airlines into the equation you don’t need all that
See if you can get it tailored to suit your needs, might be a wee bit cheaper

Will pm you number over, give him a call I’ve been with him 25 years

Cheers

Phil

 

[Heym SR20]

Insurance I have on my boat is for recreational purposes. I can take guests out with me but not “for sale or reward”.

You also want to be careful regarding benefits in kind with HMRC. The recreational stalker shooting a few deer a year and taking the odd one for personal consumption is fine.

The threshold with HMRC is £1,000 of gross income in any one tax year. And it’s quite easy to go well over that threshold if you are taking home double digit deer numbers. Even more so if you then start butchering them and selling them on.

 

[User00039]

Roundy way you have to pay to shoot on golf courses or other. Not the other way around. Too many people looking for a location, and not enough locations.

 

[slider]

Hello,

I'm extremely lucky have a small 250 acre permission on a dairy farm, came around by offering to deal with the birds in his barns and then bring the rabbits under control in exchange for Deer permissions on the land. The farm borders a golf course and long story short the golf course owner has asked if i'd help with the rabbits and foxes, given they aren't offering Deer permission instead they offered payment.

I have got insurance through SACS this year, which clearly states it's for recreational purposes only, I am justified in saying my set up currently fits that - I do birds and bunnies in exchange for full permission over the land. However, the second I accept payment then it certainly isn't recreational and therefore would null and void the insurance. I'm not a big risk taker and given the golf course is a commercial entity I wouldn't want to risk doing anything without insurance, but honestly have no idea what one needs for this. I'd be a Sole Trader, not a LTD and the amount earned would be so minimal it wouldn't require tax returns so ideally wouldn't want to incur much cost and effort to take this on. So my main question is, what insurance are people using for paid work? Does anything come with this, i.e. extra security checks, police notifications, so on? How much would I be looking at for the insurance?

I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth and definitely know how lucky I am to have this opportunity but I work 9-5 in an office and before taking something on I would grow to distain I wanted to have all the facts.

Cheers,
TDW

I think the SACS cover allows you to earn a small amount, just give them a call

 

[Dickie]

Simple farm 1 you shoot the pests and manage the deer for recreation not one in exchange for the other.
golf course they pay for ammo and fuel shooting is recreational.

 

[User00039]

Don't bother with CCC3 for cover.

 

[Pedro]

Don't bother with CCC3 for cover.

Why?

 

[User00039]

Why?

They have reduced legal cover to £25k. Seems fairly pointless to bother with them from my point of view. As I have other memberships which provide the other cover any how. I only purchased the membership (insurance) for the legal cover. Don't see how there business model parks going forward. can't see them as being trustworthy or in business for long.

 

[Pedro]

They have reduced legal cover to £25k. Seems fairly pointless to bother with them from my point of view. As I have other memberships which provide the other cover any how. I only purchased the membership (insurance) for the legal cover. Don't see how there business model parks going forward. can't see them as being trustworthy or in business for long.

I thought most of the others, such as BASC have binned legal expenses cover altogether.

 

[User00039]

I thought most of the others, such as BASC have binned legal expenses cover altogether.

Yes BASC got rid of the cover as they felt members were not bothered, they lost me and many others for it. (also the views, but that's a different topic). So I had private insurance and it was too expensive beginning of this year I found CCC3, now they have changed legal cover from £100k to £25k.
I believe cpsa provide legal cover but that it is just for shotguns.
There is also gunplan who provide legal insurance £100k for £27.29 Inc public liability.
And side by side who provide legal insurance. £250k for £27.50.
Amazes me that CCC3 legal cover of £25k is £32.95. Sorry as of the 1st August next 5 mins it will be £51.90 (£32.95 plus an additional £18.95 for legal cover of £25k).

 

[cjm1066]

Do you make a profit and submit a tax return, are yo trying to make a profit?

Does the payment recompense you for your time, travel and other expenses? If you are making a loss it strongly suggests it's a recreational activity, or you are a bad business man