K98

[enfieldspares]

I am torn between the historical value of a Kar98k, and the potential of a better condition Yugo M48.

Not relevant to you WWII rifle, but when WWI ended the British Government, as a thank you, gave a free Mauser 98 to every village hall whose members had given one pound (or maybe ten pounds I can't recall what I was told the amount was) for each multiple of that and a free Maxim '08 MG to every village hall that had given one hundred pounds (or something more). Then in 1920 when the Firearms Act was passed they took them all back! You couldn't make it up!

The rare military Mausers are the inter-war Standard Model which was the pre-98K developed as Germany re-armed (it is a 98K in all but name) and the Kaiser's War 98AZ which finished WWI as being the rifle the Storm Troops were issued with for the March 1918 offensive.

Here in UK it may be worth seeing if Ryton Arms have any non-deac Mausers but be aware that many, many are made up from disassembled and re-assembled "Russian capture" weapons. I remember seeing a warehouse full of these, and Russian Contract 1911s, in the 1980s.

Good luck. Standard bullet for the WWI Mausers was a 154 grain bulet. Standard bullet for the WWII Mausers was the 198 grain bullet. I think that Krank's will have Prvi bullets in the heavier weight? Speer do a 200 grain soft point.

My first stalking rifle in the late 1970s was a sporting Mauser in 8x57 with its claw mounted Goerz 'scope. For targets we used any surplus ammunition we could get cheap. Ended up with a bucket load of blue and red primer annulus. Only when it was shot at and drilled through falling plates was it realised it was armour piercing.

 

[hammo]

Enfield spares,
Great info, thanks.
I have read up all I can, and have a fair idea of what to look for. There is a tidy looking Russian capture I may drive to look at today, bolt is a mismatch but its condition looks good. Its a Sauer. Also a few a little further afield, including three with all matching numbers - but commanding a high price around £750 to £850! Also found an un issued M48 which apart from packing grease is as expected pristine.
So overall, for condition and best 'shooter' it will be the M48; but then again for historical and re-sale value (arguably almost an investment?) then maxing out my budget on an all matching numbers Kar98k would be the route to take.

 

[Southern]

Look at the M24 Mausers, too.

 

[alberta boy]

That's the way my 1937 Sauer Mauser sporting rifle is, too. All those old stalking rifles of the 1920s and 1930s - German, Swede, English and American - were made for fast shots, on your feet, at up to 300 yards with iron sights. They handle like upland shotguns.

200-gr Nosler Partition with 45.5 gr IMR 4064 stacks bullets on top of each other, and hammers anything in its path.

Mine loves 45 gr IMR 4064 under Speer 200 gr Hot Cores , and it's a hammer as well . The 8X57 is a great round .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

M-44's are great little carbines . A bit of a nuclear facial with the short barrels , but usually shoot very well . I bought an unissued Polish M-44 ( factory 11 stamp on the receiver ? ) that would shoot 2 MOA with decent ammo . They used to common , and cheap , I paid $75 CDN for mine , but sources have dried up . A decent example will fetch north of $ 500 CDN these days . Some look down on the MN's , I'm not one of them , excellent rifles , especially the Finns .

AB

 

[Southern]

What kind of 8x57mm are you shooting, AB?
I have K98s, M24/47s, Turkish, 1888 Commission Rifle, M48, that Sauer sporting rifle.
The M48 is extremely accurate, sub MOA with the open sights and that IMR 4064 load with 196 or 200 grain bullets.

Hammo, from an historical perspective, many M24s and M48s have seen combat, too.
An old VZ24 in good condition would be a nice collector item.
The Persian Mausers are usually in great shape and very beautiful.

 

[alberta boy]

It's a sporterized Brno M24 , it shoots under one MOA , not bad for a rifle that was built about 90 years ago lol . I love the old stuff .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

I'm also looking at a minty Yugo M-48 that a friend of mine has , he thinks it's dated , mindless savage .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

Enfield spares,
Great info, thanks.
I have read up all I can, and have a fair idea of what to look for. There is a tidy looking Russian capture I may drive to look at today, bolt is a mismatch but its condition looks good. Its a Sauer. Also a few a little further afield, including three with all matching numbers - but commanding a high price around £750 to £850! Also found an un issued M48 which apart from packing grease is as expected pristine.
So overall, for condition and best 'shooter' it will be the M48; but then again for historical and re-sale value (arguably almost an investment?) then maxing out my budget on an all matching numbers Kar98k would be the route to take.

For a "shooter " , the M48's are hard to beat . Keep in mind , they're not making them anymore either . They're already going up in value . Another point , M48's are slightly different to K98's , firing pins won't exchange between them . It's not a big deal though , besides , if you need Yugo parts , I've got lots , they're on me .

AB

 

[Tartan_Terrier]

Don't forget the Swedish Mausers!
My son has just got his hunting licence and is looking for a cheap rifle to start with. We're driving up to look at a Swedish M/38 carbine for him tomorrow. I don't think we can go too far wrong at about £55 for it (the bore should be fine).

 

[enfieldspares]

Although, obviously, not anywhere near as fast as the Enfield there are methods developed for fast firing with Mauser rifles. By the Scandanavians. One involves using the cup of the hand to work the bolt, pen and to close, not the fingers. The other, from memory, the edge of the hand to lift and then the thunm, I think, to close. There are somewhere on the internet pictures of a Swedish Captain from the pre-WWI or post-WWI period demonstrating it.

 

[alberta boy]

Don't forget the Swedish Mausers!
My son has just got his hunting licence and is looking for a cheap rifle to start with. We're driving up to look at a Swedish M/38 carbine for him tomorrow. I don't think we can go too far wrong at about £55 for it (the bore should be fine).

That's a great price , especially for a good one . They go for over $ 500 CDN here . I've got an M38 , or more accurately , my daughter does , that shoots really well . A good starter rifle , and investment if it's original .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

Although, obviously, not anywhere near as fast as the Enfield there are methods developed for fast firing with Mauser rifles. By the Scandanavians. One involves using the cup of the hand to work the bolt, pen and to close, not the fingers. The other, from memory, the edge of the hand to lift and then the thunm, I think, to close. There are somewhere on the internet pictures of a Swedish Captain from the pre-WWI or post-WWI period demonstrating it.

I've seen a video of some older Swedish shooters doing it , impressive , they know how to work a bolt gun .

AB

 

[Southern]

Although, obviously, not anywhere near as fast as the Enfield there are methods developed for fast firing with Mauser rifles. By the Scandanavians. One involves using the cup of the hand to work the bolt, pen and to close, not the fingers. The other, from memory, the edge of the hand to lift and then the thunm, I think, to close. There are somewhere on the internet pictures of a Swedish Captain from the pre-WWI or post-WWI period demonstrating it.

Yes, the military method of working a bolt action rifle is to put the ball of the bolt handle into the palm of your right hand, lift and pull to the rear with the fingers open and not used, to eject the spent case, then turn the hand over and put the ball of the bolt handle into the web of the thumb, push the bolt closed, turn it down with the thumb to lock it, and your fingers are right there on the grip of the stock and the trigger guard. Your thumb is right at the safety, to put it ON, as an option.

With some bolt action rifles, when your finger leaves the trigger, you can catch the bolt knob with the back of the hand at the web of the thumb, and lift it a little, but you want to roll the hand over and let that knob slide into your palm. The Scandinavians and Nordics have this down, as you can see in videos of their rapid fire matches with Sauer SSGs, Sigarms STRs, etc.

 

[enfieldspares]

I wish i could fond the link to the picture. I am thinking, now, it may have been in an old issue of The Rifleman? On the Enfield the absolute fast method, that is "taught" in one of the monthly issued British Army Training Memorandum (of 1944) is to work the bolt with thumb and index finger so they never leave the bolt handle and fire with he second finger as the hand comes down. So despite what some You Tube comments believe it was, in fact, a legitimate and taught technique.

 

[Southern]

Some of the modern Scandi shooters user the second finger for the trigger, too.
Back when biathlon was centerfire, before these straight pull .22s, some of those shooters used the second finger for rapid shooting.

 

[hammo]

Hi all
I looked at an all matching numbers K98 on monday, you know when something seems 'too good to be true'?
With a lot of further digging about online, it looks like some of the serial numbers have been faked. Really angry with myself for almost falling for it.
The guy selling has a big stock of milsurp and sporting guns, and seemed genuine; but he must know his onions, so I think he was trying to offload it onto me.
Will be ringing him for a refund in the morning, thank god my ticket has not arrived in the post after variation yet; or I could be sitting here with the rifle and a tissue full of tears!
This is shaping up to be my first sour experience buying a gun! anyone with an in depth knowledge of possible K98 fakes please PM me. I need further advice.
What really grips my **** is that I made an 8 hour round trip drive monday to look at it.
hammo

 

[enfieldspares]

I looked at an all matching numbers K98 on monday, you know when something seems 'too good to be true'?

wasted time and wasted petrol. Not good. Where was the RFD?

Problem with Mauser 98 rifles is that unless they are sleepers then they have all, at some time, probably been broken down and re-built. Things to look for are markings that pre-date these things belong captured, stored, re-issued, withdrawn, stored, then sold into today's market. But better to seek advice on some of the specialist forums.

 

[hammo]

Until I have spoken to him in the morning, I can't name him, thats only fair. He has four other K98's but he steered me very hard to this one. I made it plain I was no expert on K98's so probably looked like an easy target for him to mug off.
I must retain a buddhist like calm when I ring him. I have paid the full amount for the rifle.
it is in very good nick for its 80 year age, but for a collector is worthless.
I am jolly angry (not how I would normally word it!!)
This is what happens when you take people at face value!

Hammo

 

[alberta boy]

Until I have spoken to him in the morning, I can't name him, thats only fair. He has four other K98's but he steered me very hard to this one. I made it plain I was no expert on K98's so probably looked like an easy target for him to mug off.
I must retain a buddhist like calm when I ring him. I have paid the full amount for the rifle.
it is in very good nick for its 80 year age, but for a collector is worthless.
I am jolly angry (not how I would normally word it!!)
This is what happens when you take people at face value!

Hammo

That's bad news . Was it the Russian Capture rifle you mentioned , or is this another rifle ? I noticed too , I described my 8mm as an M24 , it's actually a VZ-24 , old guy moment .
Is the M-48 you mentioned still available ? They are a lot of rifle for the money .

AB