Lab for Deer, where do I start... even how do I find a suitable pup, only ever had shelter dogs..

A

Atross

Well-Known Member
Hi

After loosing our staff/boxer cross last year after 16 years of amazing companionship... 5 moves and two kids (now 4 and 8). We have decided to get another dog, we are looking for a great family dog something that can run with my wife and be a stalking companion for me, mainly used for following up shots but would be amazing if I could get them to "scent" deer before I see them, I am normally out once/twice a week. We both travel a bit (not so much at the moment) but there is usually someone at home most of the time. We have only ever had rescue dogs, normally 2-3 years old and have experience of working with dogs that have had challenging backgrounds. We haven't ever sourced a puppy let along training it for a specific task, it has been more rehabilitate/re-build trust.

From researching through a few threads and speaking to others the HWP GWPs may be more head strong and require a level of stimulation we wont be able to provide. The Tekel/Dashund are a little too small for the wife's running needs. So we thought that a lab may be a good choice ( i also have a strong food drive)... So couple of questions
1) How do I go about finding a suitable puppy, should they come from dogs that do this type of work
2) Is there any key training resources, places where I can learn what I need to do from gaining the puppy on wards. I have read some good threads with good tips but was wondering if there was anything more specific.

If it helps I am based in Mid Sussex just north of Lewes

Thanks in advance

Ash
 
Hi Ash - I reckon we know each other mate!

I’m training a 7mth old black lab pup at the moment. Working dog heritage and really intuitive in the field... I’m not sure who’s training who sometimes.

Just condition it to be steady, stop on command and look to you for direction and their nose will do the rest when you need it to. They’re so food oriented it’s really not that hard. Also AMAZING with my two kids (7&9).

I can certainly recommend the breeder I got mine from.5DAB0C54-EC45-419D-82A6-86151AE447CE.webp
 
deerstalker.308 said:
Why?
Training will be key, know plenty of good labs working deer, calm temperament helpful obviously but labs are pretty biddable. Decent gun dog breeder with decent pedigree and health tests will provide what you need.
Click to expand...

I agree. having trained a Lab as a Gundog and four teckels to track, I see no reason why Labs would not make good tracking dogs and great stalking companions. Niels Søndergaard has obviously used them - most of the photos in his tracking book are of Labs.
Books.....

Working with Dogs for Deer - By Niels Søndergaard

Tracking Dogs for finding Wounded Deer - John Jeanneney
 
Don’t go for a shelter dog, but look for one from good working stock. Labs are very biddable and want to please.

2 parts that the work

1) the brakes - you want the dog to obey command and listen to you.

2) drive and initiative - you want the dog to think for itself and to sort out problems fir itself

And 1) is often counteractive to 2)

You need a balance one with the other. For stalking you need a steady dog, or one that is steady on a lead and that will sit when you stop, lie down and wait etc. Equally needs to be able to sit and wait for a few hours.

For actually tracking shot deer, there a number good books and also previous posts. Dogs have an inate ability to track and scent trail.

What you need is for them to understand “that the blood trail i am being asked to follow is far more interesting than anything else”. For a lab that usually means food related. Ie follow blood, food results.

They soon learn the that a dead deer is a good thing to find, cos there is lots of yummy blood and if I am good i will get a piece of heart etc and if i am really cheeky then i will pinch quite a bit of the lungs heart etc so much so that i will bring it all up over the kitchen floor when i get home!!!

Which very quickly results in you being in the dog basket as well as your dog:)
 
A lab will make a great deer dog. I grew up with labs and then I had a lab x lab/springer cross (3/4 lab) he was great, I never trained him as a deer dog as I got into stalking after I got the dog but he would find deer no problem. He loved going out stalking.
He died last year and I now have a 6 month old lab GWP cross, he's a handful, and a real character, but he's great with the kids and his training is going well.

Paul Michaels deer dog blue print is a pretty good resource. He seems to think that virtually any dog can be trained as a deer indicating dog, in his video series he uses a heading dog which is a sheep dog really....
 
Tom D said:
A lab will make a great deer dog. I grew up with labs and then I had a lab x lab/springer cross (3/4 lab) he was great, I never trained him as a deer dog as I got into stalking after I got the dog but he would find deer no problem. He loved going out stalking.
He died last year and I now have a 6 month old lab GWP cross, he's a handful, and a real character, but he's great with the kids and his training is going well.

Paul Michaels deer dog blue print is a pretty good resource. He seems to think that virtually any dog can be trained as a deer indicating dog, in his video series he uses a heading dog which is a sheep dog really....
Click to expand...

I think that is possible, my old staf/boxer cross used to point pheasants! Thanks for the suggestion
 
[
Yokel Matt said:
Hi Ash - I reckon we know each other mate!

I’m training a 7mth old black lab pup at the moment. Working dog heritage and really intuitive in the field... I’m not sure who’s training who sometimes.

Just condition it to be steady, stop on command and look to you for direction and their nose will do the rest when you need it to. They’re so food oriented it’s really not that hard. Also AMAZING with my two kids (7&9).

I can certainly recommend the breeder I got mine from.View attachment 158290
Click to expand...

Cheers Matt.. it would appear we are definitely on a similar path...

Yes please on the breeder details!
 
Whatever you end up with as long as it's not a Mayfair Handbag Pooch with legs smaller than an unextended Harris Bench Bipod, comfort yourself in the knowledge it's going to be 100% more helpful than no dog when and if you lose a beast.

K
 
I'd 2nd wot unicorn said speak to some of the Ukdtr boys and when things get back to normal go along to a seminartraining day.

For breeding I'd look for a more old fashioned line of working labs ( stockier, wee head, otter tail and proper thick coat) ( lines like drakeshead or the steels broadlaw and lead burn, still plenty of Ftch but decent strong dogs) will handle cold better amoungst other things rather than some modern bred FT whipets

A dog following scent in the most natural thing in the world almost any dog will do it, t just depends wot standard u want the dog to get too and how hard it is to get it there.

Even normal puppy obedience classes are well worth it esp if ur only dog gets them socialised and obeying commands with other dogs present.
Sometimes that can be hard with only 1 dog, think u have it spot on and then all goes to pot when other dogs show up.
The only thing I'd say about puppy classes is know wot u want ur dog to do 1st ( where u want heel to be, at knee or in front more) and wot commands u want to use ( Voce, whistle, hand or some stalkers train there dogs to walk to heel off 1 leg ( usually left) but sit and stay if start with right leg

Just enjoy the pup and make any intial training fun but at same time try to avoid bad habits from forming.
 
We sold a Teckel pup to Tony Price of Tawhyhill Gundogs. Tony also manages deer and, I think, currently uses a Lab - so he is a professional gundog trainer, deerstalker and Lab breeder - might be worth a call.
 
I would contact either Cookingfat or Stone on here. Both run UKDTR and both have labs tracking deer. You'll get good advice from both.
Or contact them through UKDTR.
www.ukdtr.co.uk

Deer Tracking Organisation - UKDTR

A non-profit organisation whose aim is providing a free service to assist deer stalkers and deer managers to track, locate & (if required) dispatch wounded deer
www.ukdtr.co.uk www.ukdtr.co.uk

As you can see. Plenty of labs there.
 
Hi There , I've only ever stalked with Black Labs , fantastic working dogs and great family pets . Get a hold of the Peter Moxon books if you can , they are really good for understanding dog training , especially working Labs , from scratch ….. his books are the "bible" as far as i'm concerned. Buy your pup from a recognised working strain , he/she will learn you more, than you learn it.
 
Don't absolutely rule out a rescue dog. I regularly assess shelter dogs for law enforcement work.and have found some crackers. Some shelters look for working homes for suitable dogs.
We buy almost all our general purpose dogs but haven't paid for a specialist search dog in years as there are plenty of good rescues.
Not saying don't get a pup, just my thoughts.
Good luck.
 
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