Lawrence Precision Moderator Test

[csl]

Just out of interest, were the listeners and firer aware at the time of each appraisal which make and model of mod they were firing and listening to?

Yes they (we) were aware. There simply wasn't enough people present to do a blind test.

Here is some salvaged footage of the new Zodiac fitted to a Blaser .30-06. I believe Paul now has one of these at Corinium Range.

Lawrence Precision Zodiac - YouTube

 

[Dalua]

Yes they (we) were aware. There simply wasn't enough people present to do a blind test.

One firer choosing the mods in sequence unknown to one 'blinded' listener would have done that job.

Anyhow, this is beside the point. The nature of this essay in comparison appears to have been honestly and completely described, and its divergences from objective scientific method should therefore be readily apparent to all. Any doubts about that would be cleared up by reading the write-up in the link provided.

I hope you'll pardon my interest, but my job includes raking about in the muddy waters between marketing and science, and trying (with varying degrees of success) to tell the difference.

 

[csl]

No worries, the problem was that the 'listener', aka me, was also trying to video the proceedings and therefore I couldn't be blind!

​Next time....

 

[Dalua]

No worries, the problem was that the 'listener', aka me, was also trying to video the proceedings and therefore I couldn't be blind!

​Next time....

The same loose-fitting cover over each moderator would have sorted that out.

The order of firing and the time interval between firings is also of interest here, as exposure of the human ear to loud noise can reduce the perceived volume of subsequent exposures. Not a problem with the right measuring apparatus, of course.

Anyhow, 'nuff said.

 

[danpd]

I'm sure people would think exactly the same thing if Jacksons came on here with test results showing the Jet Z or Atec to be superior. Or Riflecraft, supporting the Hardy. Or If I came on here and said XY Or Z product is superior. yes I do have a financial interest in barrel threading, and I do supply moderators. The difference is I am totally focussed on providing the best product I can for each customers needs, I'm not loyal to any brand or supplier. I'm quite happy to put my money where my mouth is and purchase a Zodiac, because that's what I have done with every product I have sold/promoted.

 

[moses]

How exactly is a test conducted by the chap who makes the moderators, the chap who is the biggest uk retailer of the moderators, and the chap who is the most prominent Internet proponent of the moderators, conducted in a totally unscientific manner, ever going to be unbiased or impartial?

I can see how I could be accused of LP bashing from some previous posts but, I have to say that I agree with the above.

2 out of the 3 people present have a declared financial interest in the products that came out on top and CSL has yet to declare if he has any interest or sponsorship from LP.

If that was a review for ANYTHING under these circumstances then I don't think anyone could or would accept the results as unbiased or impartial not to mention that, there is no data to support any of the findings.

 

[Roedinator]

Right I'm gonna put in my to penneth in for what it's worth
i think it's good that Alex did the test and brought to members attention what is on offer out there
i also think the word useless is a bit harsh
nobodys holding a gun to your head saying you must buy one

What I do think is a good test coming up is the H 4 h rifle shoot at Monmouth
lots of people in a tunnel environment with an opinion surely a good test
maybe mr Lawrence would be kind enough to donate a mod for first prize ?
not only would this boost the funds for the day it might also get people's entries in
and take the pressure off mike 8 x 57 who works tirelessly to make this all happen
kill two birds with one stone so to speak or am I being a bit harsh
​regards pete

 

[steveford1]

Well said Pete ATB Steve

 

[JAYB]

I really am amazed, but after my years on here I have no right to be, somebody gives the best evaluation of something that they can and what thanks do they get, none at all in fact they get a kicking. At the first sign of anything that causes concern out comes the 'you should have done it this way........' brigade and point out all that they conceive as being wrong. Now don't get me wrong having a differing point of view and expressing it can only be good for healthy debate and discussion and is welcome, but what is not welcome is the belligerent and unpleasant way of expressing these varying points of view. It is not difficult to be civil when answering the threads but it would appear that people have to adopt a superior attitude and at best be condescending and at worse downright rude.

I'm getting really fed up with it now, we are always getting complaints from people about the aggressive attitude being displayed by some, and how this attitude stifles healthy pleasant constructive debate and more importantly stops people from posting on and joining the site. So I would ask people to consider what they type and the manner in which their response may well be received, surely civility and good manners are not beyond everyone's reach.

For those amongst the membership that have trouble understanding that let me rephrase in a more direct manner that seems to be favoured by some. If you can't sort yourselves out then I will do it for you and you will an ex-member of this site.

John

 

[danpd]

I have spoken with Simon Lawrence this afternoon. I am purchasing a moderator and I'm going up there on Thursday, and all Simon asks is that I give my honest opinion of it. So I will know more then.

 

[Offroad Gary]

Does anyone know the rrp of the lawrence titanium mods?

 

[Wsm]

Every thread I can ever remember about mods everyone gets carried away with sound meters and decibel readings

I was fortunate to be on a mod test conducted a few years back (the one that was in Shooting Times by Bruce) and I can tell you that in a lot of cases those with the lowest db readings weren't actually the quietest to our ears.Most readings were that close that I doubt that our hearing is sensitive enough to differentiate the difference anyway but some sounded quieter to our ears than others with slightly lower readings.Based on that information I'm now of the opinion that you really have to hear the mod first hand and decide for yourself if you're happy with it or place your trust in basic tests as published by owners of kit (as opposed to a mate of a mate says they're s**t type posts )

Now back to the Lawrence.I had an Auroro from Simon for a 270wsm about the time they came out.He advised me that one of the bigger cans would be more suitable for such a big capacity case but my main concern at the time was weight and handleability so was willing to compromise on the suppression a wee bit.The mod came and although it wasn't the quietest in the world (perceived by me and stalking mates ears) it did the job adequately until I had a bit of a change round and decided to put it on a finlight 22/250 (after a swift baffle stack change).On that its as good as anything else I've heard.A 270 then wore a T8 magnum that was at the time considered one of the best mods for a magnum calibre and it served me admirably until the dreaded rust spots started to eat through which was probably my fault as the advised spray of oil maintenance regime was very sporadic.Another call to Simon with the request of I now want the quietest mod available and I'm not bothered about size and after less than a week an Eclipse Custom was produced about the same diameter as the T8 but quite a bit shorter and considerably lighter.I was a bit sceptical about how efficient it would be with being shorter but it was as easily as quiet as the one it replaced (again according to my shooting companions) but with all the benefits (shorter,lighter and maintenance free)
After reading the review by Alex my Eclipse will be returning to Nottingham for the Zodiac upgrade with a confident manufacturer telling me that if I don't think its an improvement he'll reinstate it to an Eclipse by return

 

[luke padberg]

I've known Simon for a few years now got 3 of his mods on my rifles there great as far as I'm concerned. Had jet z's before which were good but I think these are better plus a lot lighter which is another important thing to me.Look forward to you building me another one soon Simon for my 338 lapua for deer regards luke.

 

[caorach]

Every thread I can ever remember about mods everyone gets carried away with sound meters and decibel readings

I was fortunate to be on a mod test conducted a few years back (the one that was in Shooting Times by Bruce) and I can tell you that in a lot of cases those with the lowest db readings weren't actually the quietest to our ears.Most readings were that close that I doubt that our hearing is sensitive enough to differentiate the difference anyway but some sounded quieter to our ears than others with slightly lower readings.

Sound level meters and decibel readings are fundamental to measuring and understanding sound and getting an objective measure of how damaging it is likely to be to your hearing. Among a general audience, for some reason, they are badly understood and often entirely misunderstood and I suspect a lot of this comes from misrepresentation in the media or popular press.

In the situation where the levels represented by the meters did not reflect what you believed you were hearing then you need to ask yourself what was causing this to happen. As I've stated earlier it needs a pretty specialised meter and chain to accurately record the peak sound pressure level of a rifle shot. A less than optimal meter may potentially produce incorrect readings and I can envisage circumstances where these readings would be "fairly accurate" but could vary by several dB (potentially upwards or downwards) in a random manner. Given this it is possible your ears were right and that the meter and associated chain was in error because it was not entirely suitable for purpose. It is also possible that the way our ears deal with various frequencies in a sound could have been responsible, depending on how the meter was weighting the signal. Most people can easily hear a 3dB difference in normal audio signals and most consider a 10dB difference to produce a sound which is perceived as being "twice as loud" though I've no idea if these figures extrapolate to high level impulse sounds.

In terms of the readings being close it is important to note that a 3dB increase in level will give a doubling of the power. It is generally accepted by the medical types that once an impulse noise goes over 140dB(A) it has potential to result in a something approaching a catastrophic failure resulting in instant deafness, though it seems to me this is rare at the 140dB(A) level but on the other hand none of us can say that the next shot will not be the one to cause it to happen. It is also the case that above this 140dB(A) level you, in effect, get out more damage for the amount of SPL you put in when compared with impulse noises below this level. Given all of this even small differences in indicated SPL, assuming a suitable meter, can be important as a rifle shot at 143dB(A) has twice the power of a shot at 140dB(A) and this has very significant implications for the potential to damage your hearing.

 

[Wsm]

I understand that the noise levels are important to the extent that it gives the manufacturers their acceptable limits but my point was whilst these have been established by the maker/manufacturer as in the safe limit it seems that some shooters automatically think that a mod with a slightly lower db reading is the be all and end all of how quiet/loud a moderator is when as you say there is a lot of other variables to consider as well (as we obviously found)
Most of the manufacturers info I've seen seem to give a db reading of between figures presumably for this reason

 

[charadam]

I would just like to remark that, as a 65 year old former soldier (7.62 SLR vintage), aircraft technician and engineer, I am extremely grateful to the designers of centrefire moderators.

They keep my very expensive, peak noise level limiting pair of hearing aids from cutting in too often.

 

[tika.308]

If someone said they were giving free cash away you would still get some of you moaning

 

[EMcC]

Gosh, having read some of the remarks on this thread ref the integrity of the people conducting their experiments with the mod and their recommedations I am a bit worried.
Worried that I might be mixing with the sort of people my mother used to tell me to keep away from
I have known CSL for quite a while and am due to visit HME on Tuesday morning.
If I hear a loud report from my rifle am I going to be told that it is my ears playing up and listen to what I am being told rather than what I experience

 

[Roedinator]

Gosh, having read some of the remarks on this thread ref the integrity of the people conducting their experiments with the mod and their recommedations I am a bit worried.
Worried that I might be mixing with the sort of people my mother used to tell me to keep away from
I have known CSL for quite a while and am due to visit HME on Tuesday morning.
If I hear a loud report from my rifle am I going to be told that it is my ears playing up and listen to what I am being told rather than what I experience

Eddy you only hear a loud report if you manage to hit the steel plate
​regards pete

 

[Wsm]

Alex

Do you have any footage of the other moderators as in the video clip ?