Lead free .243 bullet comparisons

[monarman]

After my thread a while ago looking at lead free 6.5 bullets for expansion cavity comparisons I decided to have a look at the .243 offerings I have to hand....

From my findings I'm a bit disappointed that the federal 85 grain copper which shoots best from my rifle is actually not far from being a FMJ!!!!!..... and I will now have to find an alternative as my park cull dictates lead free and I opted for .243 (as its headshots) as a cheaper alternative to the creedmoor and thinking less chance of ricochet.....

From left to right... 85 grain federal copper.... fox 80 grain..... hornady gmx 80 grain.
As you can see the gmx has the largest and deepest cavity and in theory should expand better. The issue is that the superformance round doesn't suit my rifle..... .and finding the full boar factory equivalent is impossible!!.

I don't homeload as the estate buys the ammo ... but I may have to rethink that option.

I hear the Winchester varmint 55 grain zinc bullet is good for expansion and deer legal.... I will try some when I can lay my hands on some...

 

[monarman]

Out of interest.... I found a .308 130 grain (I assume 130 due to length) fox bullet and put it next to the .243 80 grain fox.......
This shows the deeper and wider cavity on the larger bullet which one would assume makes for better initial expansion and a better wound channel. Which gives the "larger caliber but lighter leadfree" advice a bit more credibility perhaps..

 

[monarman]

And a 50 grain .223 fox on the left... for comparison.... also a decent cavity

 

[Boosh]

Don't know whether this is of any interest, but a while ago started messing about with the Nosler BT lead free offerings in 55 grn for .243 (out of a sporter 20" tikka 1-10).
These got turbo'd up to 3800 fps and on paper were showing 1780 ft/lbs of energy and showing tiny groups at 100mtrs.
Never used them in anger.
Got to 200 mtrs and they were all over the place, needed work.

 

[monarman]

seems to me that an ideal would be a 70 grain 6mm bullet in lead free....
not too long a bullet length... it would give the best of everything in theory, speed.. expansion... stabilisation in a normal .243 twist...
Eiropean manufacturers shoud look at this as it has potential to be the ideal small deer and foxing bullet... it would be good for park culls too..... the past favourite for park culls used to be the .243 70 grain ballistic tip ammo...

If only rws/geco did an 80 grain HIT factory ammo .....

 

[Alantoo]

Are you just comparing the cavity proportions of these bullets as an indication of their likelihood to expand? Or have you taken into account the actual alloy or the state of hardness of the various bullets? Obviously there is a huge difference in expansion potential if the metal of any particular alloy is in a hard, half hard or fully annealed condition.

The centre Fox bullet .243 looks like it has a bit more copper in the mix than the two flanking ones...maybe just a trick of the light.

Alan

 

[ShootyBang]

It might be an idea if this forum started a thread to collect statistics on lead-free ammo effects on animals. We could pack up some awesome statistics, very high N-number if we got the awareness out there.

 

[takbok]

seems to me that an ideal would be a 70 grain 6mm bullet in lead free....
not too long a bullet length... it would give the best of everything in theory, speed.. expansion... stabilisation in a normal .243 twist...

The bullet you're looking for is the 69gr GS Custom - perfect choice for the 243 and any deer in the UK (except where the laws haven't caught up yet).

I use the lighter 62gr version in my little 6x45 and it's perfect - excellent expansion and penetration every time.

 

[borbal]

I don't homeload as the estate buys the ammo ... but I may have to rethink that option.

Will "the estate" allow you to do that....? I would be surprised.

 

[Reloader708]

You look to have cut up about £150 worth there!

 

[Heym SR20]

seems to me that an ideal would be a 70 grain 6mm bullet in lead free....
not too long a bullet length... it would give the best of everything in theory, speed.. expansion... stabilisation in a normal .243 twist...
Eiropean manufacturers shoud look at this as it has potential to be the ideal small deer and foxing bullet... it would be good for park culls too..... the past favourite for park culls used to be the .243 70 grain ballistic tip ammo...

If only rws/geco did an 80 grain HIT factory ammo .....

The HIT is a solid copper type bullet. What you want is the EVO Green type. Or a Non toxic Varmint type bullet for the 243 for head shooting.

 

[Alantoo]

The HIT is a solid copper type bullet. What you want is the EVO Green type. Or a Non toxic Varmint type bullet for the 243 for head shooting.

Good suggestion.

The Evo Green is a twin tin cored partition with a frangible/fragmentng front core in a gilding metal jacket, a similarly cored partition in a steel jacket is the Brenneke TUG Bleifrei.

The Barnes Varmint Grenade / MPG bullets are compressed copper and tin powder in a GM jacket, similar to the DRT bullet construction, designed to pass through bone, and fragment when they encounter soft tissue.

I don't homeload as the estate buys the ammo ... but I may have to rethink that option.

If the factory Fox does not work in your rifle and estate buys the ammo and it has to be factory, then any of the above bullets could be loaded to your spec by HPS in Newent.

Alan

 

[ShootyBang]

Peregrine Bullets from Edinburgh Rifles have done me well. I think they also do some loaded ammunition. Peregrine Monolithics – Edinburgh Rifles

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

tip size and hollow point are largely irrelevant as methods of predicting expansion
Actual tests using variable density substrate or actual carcases are the only reliable indicator.

The 6mm Fox has a significantly smaller meplat and shorter hollow point than a 30cal due to the increased expected terminal velocity
the 6mm fox has a tendency to break when run extremely fast with MV of 33-3400
they lose the petals on impact

 

[Heym SR20]

Good suggestion.

The Evo Green is a twin tin cored partition with a frangible/fragmentng front core in a gilding metal jacket, a similarly cored partition in a steel jacket is the Brenneke TUG Bleifrei.

The Barnes Varmint Grenade / MPG bullets are compressed copper and tin powder in a GM jacket, similar to the DRT bullet construction, designed to pass through bone, and fragment when they encounter soft tissue.



If the factory Fox does not work in your rifle and estate buys the ammo and it has to be factory, then any of the above bullets could be loaded to your spec by HPS in Newent.

Alan

I must admit to not being overly convinced by the fragmenting Zinc cored type bullets. Yes they are non toxic, but the still fragment and leave lots of metal particles in the carcass. The beauty of a monolithic bullet is they expand a open up but they tend to stay together, and if they do break they leave large easily seen bits behind.

@Edinburgh Rifles makes a very good point. A 243 bullet will arrive with 2 or 300 fps more than a 308 or even 6.5 bullet - especially in lighter bullet weights.

 

[User00040]

It might be an idea if this forum started a thread to collect statistics on lead-free ammo effects on animals. We could pack up some awesome statistics, very high N-number if we got the awareness out there.

Comparing Terminal Performance of Non-lead/Copper Bullets on UK Deer

Hi all, Since some are facing the mandatory use of copper/non-lead bullets on deer, I thought a thread inspired by Nathan Foster's site (Terminal Ballistics Research,click on wound research tab) would be of use to stalkers who are concerned about deer welfare, efficient carcass recovery and...

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Maybe not the statistical analysis you seek, but I think real life examples of deer being hit, not doctored ballistic gel/water jug tests are what is needed. Theory does not trump practise.

Seems my thread isn't too popular, not many contributors. Some members of this forum seems to do more talking than stalking... and they just happen to be some of the biggest non-lead bullet advocates...

 

[monarman]

I did my first cull in the park earlier this year..... 110 fallow and a couple of young red stags.... all were head shot with lead free ammo.
The ammo in use were sako 120 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x55... federal 150 grain copper.... 150 grain 30-06 fox and 130 308 fox .. one of the reds and 2 fallow prickets were shot with 243 federal 85 grain copper...

There were several noted 'richochets' after deer were shot... that was with the 30 cals...
3 deer needed a follow up shot due to shot placement (angle of the head and bullet not expanding and passing through).....
The 120 barnes from both 6.5s did kill very well but one or 2 deer had to have follow up shots due to shot placement and lack of expansion (a lead bullet would of fragmented and caused more trauma and killed better) ....
The fallow and red stag shot with the 243 from close ish range (60-80 yards ) had tiny exit wounds .... the red stag was a classic between the eyes shot and had the shot placement not been spot on I suspect the bullet would of "needled" and a follow up shot needed... so in my opinion thats bullet is not ideal and a more frangiable bullet would of been better.

Back in the days when I used a .270 I found the 110 vmax ammo to be absolute superb at killing deer..... not pushed too fast out of a 20 inch barrel.... likewise the best round I used for roe was 87 grain vmax..... again not too fast but frangiable and causing enough shock and trauma to kill very well....
Ask any deerpark culler what they used and im sure most will say some sort of ballistic tip/high fragmenting bullet....

Ive noticed alot people who use lead free are admitting little blood trails.... ive had that myself with muntjac with the sako barnes 120 6.5 at 2800fps or there abouts(chronographed )...... i now shoot for the forward shoulder so the bullet hits summat hard to initiate expansion and also for any bone fragments to act as the secondary trauma maker (in essence re creating a lead bullet effect) ...

I am not slating lead free ammo.... I think its a good thing.... I just think we need more expansion and less pencilling...

 

[StephenToast]

The HIT is a solid copper type bullet. What you want is the EVO Green type. Or a Non toxic Varmint type bullet for the 243 for head shooting.

I use the HIT in my .30-06. It's perfectly adequate for head shooting.

 

[User00040]

@monarman

Very interesting, if the park wants head shots, why use lead-free ammo? Should not be any difference in the carcass (and following your comments about ricochet) possibly safer?

Is putting a high seat/ elevated blind up within 50m or so of a feeding point not an option? Should be well within reach of the .22LR...

 

[stalkerboydy]

I did my first cull in the park earlier this year..... 110 fallow and a couple of young red stags.... all were head shot with lead free ammo.
The ammo in use were sako 120 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5x55... federal 150 grain copper.... 150 grain 30-06 fox and 130 308 fox .. one of the reds and 2 fallow prickets were shot with 243 federal 85 grain copper...

There were several noted 'richochets' after deer were shot... that was with the 30 cals...
3 deer needed a follow up shot due to shot placement (angle of the head and bullet not expanding and passing through).....
The 120 barnes from both 6.5s did kill very well but one or 2 deer had to have follow up shots due to shot placement and lack of expansion (a lead bullet would of fragmented and caused more trauma and killed better) ....
The fallow and red stag shot with the 243 from close ish range (60-80 yards ) had tiny exit wounds .... the red stag was a classic between the eyes shot and had the shot placement not been spot on I suspect the bullet would of "needled" and a follow up shot needed... so in my opinion thats bullet is not ideal and a more frangiable bullet would of been better.

Back in the days when I used a .270 I found the 110 vmax ammo to be absolute superb at killing deer..... not pushed too fast out of a 20 inch barrel.... likewise the best round I used for roe was 87 grain vmax..... again not too fast but frangiable and causing enough shock and trauma to kill very well....
Ask any deerpark culler what they used and im sure most will say some sort of ballistic tip/high fragmenting bullet....

Ive noticed alot people who use lead free are admitting little blood trails.... ive had that myself with muntjac with the sako barnes 120 6.5 at 2800fps or there abouts(chronographed )...... i now shoot for the forward shoulder so the bullet hits summat hard to initiate expansion and also for any bone fragments to act as the secondary trauma maker (in essence re creating a lead bullet effect) ...

I am not slating lead free ammo.... I think its a good thing.... I just think we need more expansion and less pencilling...

Interesting reading/facts
I used my 6.5x55 with home loaded Barnes TTSX 120gr. Cull 84 Red Hinds 6 Red Stag and 12 Fallow Prickets shot between the eyes behind the ear or atlas joint all lights out one shot kills between 60 an 135 yard's personally i found them just as devastating as 75 gr V-Max @-3700fps from my .25-06 i used to use