Malxwal
Well-Known Member
What's your shot of choice ? I'd add mine is not a pinning shot, and I'm not under any pressure to kill stuff.
Lead free bullets and lung shot roe
- Thread starter paulux
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Utectok
Well-Known Member
Fair enough I shoot a lot of deer so I’m never short of venison loosing the odd shoulder is made up the the odd head shot or neck shot one. Never a shortage of venison here
Shoulder shot with copper mono metal expanding petal = none of the shoulder meat is contaminated with metal particles so there is minimal waste.
I shoot just behind the shoulder joint if broadside on, and adjust to hit that pot centrally if the animal is quartering...so one or the other shoulder may be hit. But very little meat is discarded. When I am butchering both shoulders tend to be chopped up for braising steak or minced even if they are undamaged anyway, and we ask my retired butcher friend to do the same if he is doing them.
But if you prefer lung shot for whatever reason, then a frangible (Barnes MPG/Varmint Grenade, RWS Evo Green, Brenneke TUG) or fragmenting bullet (Nielsen, Yew Tree, DRT, Lehigh Defense, Virtus and etc.) would definitely be more effective...it is what they are designed to do.
Alan
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It strikes me you have two potential solutions. The first is to increase the velocity of your current bullet. This may increase the rate of bang flop reactions. From my experience (with Barnes bullets) 3000fps works well. If this is not possible then decrease the bullet weight to make sure you achieve this or greater velocity. The monometal bullets penetrate really well and don’t need to be as heavy as a lead core bullet. I have helped develop a load for a good friend and his fairly long barreled 6.5x55 using the 100g TTSX that gives us 3300fps with no pressure signs and good brass life. He generally sees things die very quickly indeed (foxes to big red stags, near to far!!)
The second solution is to shoot further forward into the so called vital triangle and take out the top of the heart and the hilar region. Compared to a soft point lead bullet you shouldn’t lose much more meat as you should have been cutting away and discarding a 4 inch radius of the bullet path anyway which tends to include a lot of the triceps muscle mass.
I find the 308 130g TTSX at 3000fps to be a great bullet on Roe and they often drop on the spot and seldom run far. The 110g TTSX would also be a good shout but I haven’t tried them yet.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
If you can buy any ttsx anywhere these days
They are getting harder to find for sureIf you can buy any ttsx anywhere these days
Utectok
Well-Known Member
What’s your load for 3300fps that’s impressive
Over 49 gr of RS60 in a Norma case with a 100g TTSX. This rifle has a match grade 26 inch barrel that mops up every bit of velocity possible. This load is safe in this rifle but not necessarily in others. In particular this should not be used in older 6.5x55 rifles that are not designed to cope with higher pressure loads.
We aimed to recreate 25/06 performance in the 55 case and it has definitely worked well
We aimed to recreate 25/06 performance in the 55 case and it has definitely worked well
Andy seatrout
Well-Known Member
I was using copper for fallow last weekend, only had one shot….a bit farther than I’d prefer and it was a liver/ stomach shot….I’m not proud but I’ll tell the truth….about 200 yards off sticks….
Anyway the doe moved about four yards and keeled over, did need a dispatch shot but wasn’t going anywhere…. My view is you don’t go hunting or stalking if you can’t live with your less than perfect performance….
I was using the Nosler expansion tip in 120gr, recommended by Mike Norris….good exit wound with a blood trail, not that it was needed…it’s got a higher BC than the Hornady GMX… decent 1.5’’ exit….seemed to dump a lot of energy.
When I was developing the load it was doing 2,840fps…. So not super fast. 6.5 x 55 swede ( sako 85 finnlight)
(Lots of edits but I’ve had a nice bottle of red)
Anyway the doe moved about four yards and keeled over, did need a dispatch shot but wasn’t going anywhere…. My view is you don’t go hunting or stalking if you can’t live with your less than perfect performance….
I was using the Nosler expansion tip in 120gr, recommended by Mike Norris….good exit wound with a blood trail, not that it was needed…it’s got a higher BC than the Hornady GMX… decent 1.5’’ exit….seemed to dump a lot of energy.
When I was developing the load it was doing 2,840fps…. So not super fast. 6.5 x 55 swede ( sako 85 finnlight)
(Lots of edits but I’ve had a nice bottle of red)
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One on top of two
Well-Known Member
I have had some great results with lapua natralis 140 grn @2900
Found the bullet very easy to tune .
www.cdsgltd.co.uk
Found the bullet very easy to tune .
Lapua Naturalis 6.5mm 140Grn SOLID 50 Pack LANPL6203 - CDSG Ltd
The Naturalis hunting bullets and cartridges can be used in hunting areas where lead core bullets are prohibited
www.cdsgltd.co.uk
2Ll’s
Well-Known Member
120 gr Nosler E tip all the way, group well with excellent results and are usually available.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I used to think that too but over the last few months I’ve done very well with head and neck shot roe with copper.. bullet needs to hit bone though
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
No you don't. I use RWS HIT which does not fragment and I can assure you, they kill deer with headshots.
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
All headshots need to hit bone... The brain is literally surrounded by it.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Of course the do and won’t disagree with you. But a tough monolithic type bullet or a bonded lead core bullet won’t expand very much in a deer’s head or neck. They put a neat hole through them, which is fine if you hit the vitals. But if you are a bit off you put a neat hole through, they fall down stunned and then a few moments stagger back to their feet and run off with a nasty wound that will kill but only after a few days.
By contrast if you use a more rapidly expanding fragmenting type bullet it will cause massive damage to the head / neck and surrounding blood vessels etc. if it goes slightly off the deer is still dead. I took a lot of head shots in the past. It was on an estate where all deer were butchered and sold oven ready and thus we wanted to maximise meat production.
Only downside to using such bullets is they make a real mess of a head so dragging with a rope can be an issue.
These days I prefer to use a bullet that will penetrate both shoulders from any angle without causing huge meat damage, but that will put the deer down. Hence I use the Fox or RWS HIT. And yes they do work for the occasional head shot, but if I was culling and taking head shots all the time I would use the RWS Evo Green etc.
I use the rws evo green or the nosler e tip in my 6.5x55.
Have also used fox and Barnes and had no issues with any of them. Nothing drops deer like the evo green but they are doing 3260 fps and very frangible.
Please see a pic of a Barnes 165grn recovered from a target at 200m next to a 93grn evo green.
It seems to work a bit like a partition in that the rear shank holds together very well and penetrates like crazy.
I’ll have to admit too, for me it’s always a shoulder shot, neck shot or head shot. But I do understand the ops reason for meat preservation.
Have also used fox and Barnes and had no issues with any of them. Nothing drops deer like the evo green but they are doing 3260 fps and very frangible.
Please see a pic of a Barnes 165grn recovered from a target at 200m next to a 93grn evo green.
It seems to work a bit like a partition in that the rear shank holds together very well and penetrates like crazy.
I’ll have to admit too, for me it’s always a shoulder shot, neck shot or head shot. But I do understand the ops reason for meat preservation.
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paulbshooting
Well-Known Member
On my second season with the 308 using TTSX. Dont shoot many roe nowadays, mainly fallow and the occasional munty. I always shoot very close to or through one shoulder. As in replies above, hitting some bone seems to help the bullet do its job.
I was thinking about this overnight.
Lead hunting bullets worked by a combination of expansion and fragmentation and were considered humane. We have replaced them with a Copper monolith that while it expands is still a monolith. It may expand from, say, 7mm to 14mm in diameter that's as good as it gets, in ideal conditions.
We used to be told that target bullets were unacceptable because they did not expand, but actually I don't see a huge difference in effect with copper hunting bullets. They only damage what they pass through, the hole is a bit bigger but other than that there is no difference to a 'pencilling' target bullet.
I suspect you are right the largest target to drop them is the shoulder, so if I am on someone else's ground then that's the target . On my ground I am shooting to eat the venison so I may need to change my stalking style to get a lot closer in to make a more precise shot. Dunno need to think about that.
Whatever, from my experience I do not buy the line that copper is no different to lead
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