Mandatory training will shut out stalkers when Scotland needs them most

[Mike1979]

Qualifications and experience are polls apart.

I have a mate who has been shooting deer for 50 years and hes some fair shot and has a wealth of knowledge...but no qualifications.

I've been shooting deer for 13 years and have DSC1 & 2....Who would I want controlling my deer ...that would go to my mate.

Its like claiming someone who has passed the 18th Ed (BS 7671) is a competent electrician...definitely not the case.

 

[Happy stalker]

Absolutely nothing beats actual experience on the ground going out with an experienced person and actually doing the job can never be replaced.
books, videos and classroom qualifications lays down the foundations, after which all the theories need to be put into practice.
I personally started as a stalking ghillie then under stalker and eventually head stalker, I gained vast amounts of knowledge while being out with a mentor back in the day, and still learning.

 

[Freeforester]

So, it's not the same as SNH/Nature Scot, Fit and Competent.

Not likely to meet them up the Spring Path or at the back o’ the Ben, then

 

[Ratel]

Regarding qualifications building wise I know a lad who with 14 others did a three year carpentry course and he's a fair joiner, however not one of them could secure an apprenticeship. He now works for his Dad in general engineering and is welding stainless as well as general fitting jobs and woodwork on the side.
On the deer side I had been stalking deer for 25-30 years before I did levels one and two and reached A grade (instructor stalker) in a well known club. I was an AW for years but gave it up when they were going to charge us for being one.
None of my certificates have ever been asked for and I think I was just as competent a stalker in my first few years (if not more) than I probably am now. The only thing I would say is that experience IMHO beats certs every time in the stalking world and I learn a little more every time I go out, even after 60 years at it.

 

[Happy stalker]

The only thing I would say is that experience IMHO beats certs every time in the stalking world and I learn a little more every time I go out, even after 60 years at it.

Absolutely so true

 

[Dickie]

We all know you can't beat experience and everyone has to learn somewhere for sometime but unfortunately the modern world we live in wants and needs a trail to cover the arse of those higher up the chain and it isn't going to change or get better.
Just look at all the hoops required to get or renew your FAC.
Years ago people wanted to know where you'd previously been and with who for how long, now they want the number of certificates you have and how old they are.
Unfortunately it's now caught/catching up with deer stalking/management.

 

[Simon NZ]

If you let the cops make the rules you get a police state.
Their unacknowledged goal or the usual unforeseen cicrumstances excuse the powers roll with when their carefully laid out impractical ideas fail is they use taxes to pay for deer and pest control, here we have they banned semi auto's unless its a govt approved pest controller. All the while claiming semis are no good for hunting when they supplied their evidence to ban them. Clearly they gave the keys to the cops to drive wherever they wanted with the law.
Now we hear that the farmers who used to say please come and help my farm from being overrun by pests for free there is literally no-one except the govt paid for shooter and all the osh risks involved. The govt shooter uses the semi auto not a bolt action needs to be reiterated. They love it when there is an accident. More work for the system.
Now they want us to pay for access to public land on top of their absurd licensing regime that's putting people off from a licensed firearm whom they distrust.
It's not hard to put off those that are curious about becoming hunters, they play on games on intenet or whatever else they can find. Someone said the demographic is getting older.
The ones whom want the wolves out to control deer have alot of support from govt and cops and a more useless undemocratic subservient lazy society is their goal.
Create more hoops should be hunters goal? Clearly self destructive particularly for those that have interest in legacy.
You guys can't even bow hunt, compound bows these days have upset the hunting season for guns so much they are trying to handicap them in the US.
Yet despite the evidence they are effective they are ineffective according to the impractical pragmatists

 

[Simon NZ]

Local archery club atleast 1/3 of are from the UK and usually reliving Agincourt or some Crusade battle with their barebows. Its in your, should I say our DNA.

 

[Rbr1401]

Deer into the foodchain? I heard today that the neighbouring Forestry Scotland larder can not get rid of any carcasses so are just putting them in a skip.

It is not deer management, it is deer eradication and extinction.

Is this with all Fls carcasses or just the 1,s they deem unfit ?

 

[David Barker]

We all know you can't beat experience and everyone has to learn somewhere for sometime but unfortunately the modern world we live in wants and needs a trail to cover the arse of those higher up the chain and it isn't going to change or get better.
Just look at all the hoops required to get or renew your FAC.
Years ago people wanted to know where you'd previously been and with who for how long, now they want the number of certificates you have and how old they are.
Unfortunately it's now caught/catching up with deer stalking/management.

I would like to know who is further up the chain what chain?

 

[Dickie]

I would like to know who is further up the chain what chain?

Landowner, leaseholder, employers, I'm sure there are others associated with carcases going into the food chain that might not have pulled the trigger but could be called to account.

 

[David Barker]

Landowner, leaseholder, employers, I'm sure there are others associated with carcases going into the food chain that might not have pulled the trigger but could be called to account.

Dickie are you having a laugh you need to have your certs to put your deer into the food chain in scotland.; But that said the person receiving the carcases should in scotland be VD or a AGHE. So no matter what venison heading for the market place will have been checked many times.

 

[Dickie]

Dickie are you having a laugh you need to have your certs to put your deer into the food chain in scotland.; But that said the person receiving the carcases should in scotland be VD or a AGHE. So no matter what venison heading for the market place will have been checked many times.

So if you need to have your certs what is this whole thread about?

 

[David Barker]

So if you need to have your certs what is this whole thread about?

You do not need certs at the moment if you are taking one or two for the pot. Government in Scotland only are putting a bill forward to make any one shooting deer to have mandatory training.

 

[Dickie]

You do not need certs at the moment if you are taking one or two for the pot. Government in Scotland only are putting a bill forward to make any one shooting deer to have mandatory training.

It's been on the cards for years, No surprise that it's your Government going first then soon to be followed by the rest of the good ideas clubs.
Don't mean I agree with it.

 

[Simon NZ]

Exactly why am interested. We used to have our own fireams laws now we have yours plus some. Need to record sales of sling swivels including buyer ID. A registration for swivels on bolt actions.
Sport shops selling stuff are in favor of it as it reduces supply competitors. We have Trademe which is a copy of Ebay. ..they hate it.
There is always an intetested party whom interest is commerial gain.
Also this required training is getting discussed here. H&S regulators rule the day.
Fortunately we voted for change and ACT which is a minor party made rewritting laws to end dumb stuff part of their agreement.